Imperial Russia Am I missing something?

[GeorgeCL]

Heres a piece that sold yesturday on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...W:IT&ih=005

Why did it sell for such an amt.?

George

[Treloarth]

Judging from the small photo it looks like the straightforward silver medal that sells for closer to $500, sometimes less.

Treloarth

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Treloarth,

So why is the Russian Market driving up the prices so high?

This went for 1140.00+

George

[Treloarth]

There are very many very wealthy Russians (and Ukrainians). They are enthusiastically collecting Imperial memorabilia back into Russia. They are willing to pay top market price for decorations, medals, silverware, documents etc. This will drive their market prices up even further for years to come. But the 192661 on the medal says (I believe) that this particular decoration was the 192,661th 4th Class St George to be awarded, so there are many around for collectors, and the price looks ridiculous to me. Wait and see what the next 4th class sells for. Incidentally, once rare items have gone back into Russia it is often illegal for them to be re-exported, which will make them even scarcer. That may not apply to a common 4th Class St George, but if it does, watch out for even larger increases in prices.

Treloarth

[Paul L Murphy]

The ban on re-export out of Russia applies to any item over 100 years old, even a humble 4th Class cross.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Paul L Murphy

[Treloarth]

Thanks for that Paul.

The consequence is that by 2020, 100 years after Wrangel left Russia and all production of Imperial Russian items ceased, no single Imperial relic will be allowed to leave Russia. Collectors must collect quickly.

Treloarth

[Vatjan]

Heres a piece that sold yesturday on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...W:IT&ih=005

Why did it sell for such an amt.?

George

From 1856 to 1913 205336 St George crosses 4th class were awarded. In 1913 they started renumbering the crosses from 1, engraving"N?" in front of the number to distinguish them from the older ones. the problem is that this was only possible for the crosses up to n?99999, since there is not enough room on the cross arms to put 3 numbers + "N?".

So it is hard to distinguish the old crosses from the new ones for the number range of 100000 to 205336. So it is possible that this is actually a preWWI St George cross, maybe even awarded for the Russo-Japanese war. Logically the price for such a cross would be much higher than for a WWI cross.

Jan

[paul wood]

From 1856 to 1913 205336 St George crosses 4th class were awarded. In 1913 they started renumbering the crosses from 1, engraving"N?" in front of the number to distinguish them from the older ones. the problem is that this was only possible for the crosses up to n?99999, since there is not enough room on the cross arms to put 3 numbers + "N?".

So it is hard to distinguish the old crosses from the new ones for the number range of 100000 to 205336. So it is possible that this is actually a preWWI St George cross, maybe even awarded for the Russo-Japanese war. Logically the price for such a cross would be much higher than for a WWI cross.

Jan

It's a 1905 issue, in Lavrouk's auction 44 in Moscow (June 2007) they had one numbered 115240 which was estimated at $3000. Russo-Jap war issues are considerably more sought after than Great War issues and earlier ones from the 1860's and 70's would make even more.

Hope this helps,

Paul

[Colin Davie]

I know it's not what many in here will want to hear, but I for one am glad they are going back to Russia.

It always gladdened my heart to see UK individuals put their hand in their pocket and contribute to a VC staying in the UK. By the same token I always found it a little bit sad to see a KC named to someone historically important fly out of Germany almost every week, I'm sure the German guys have done what they can with so many KC's available, I appreciate they are in a different position.

The Russian prices are not insane now IMO... they were insane before when they were cheap.

Japanese medals are under appreciated in Japan IMO, a real shame they go relatively cheaply out of the country, buy them now to profit later maybe if that's how some collect (investment).

Good on the Russians, enjoy your history and remember those that gave you what you now enjoy.

C

[WRANGEL]

Colin,

I do not agree with you at all. These Russian guys, ex-communist apparatchiks and new capitalists moguls, would have killed (just a few years ago) the people whom they are now seeking avidly their badges, medals, orders and souvenirs. They are just appropriating a part of history, but be sure they are not willing to recognised Russia's faults towards the Russian emigrees. Not only have they ######ed up the market concerning Russian militaria (not to mention all the extremely well made fakes coming now from Russia for the western market) but they are also putting their dirty hands on the Orthodox Cathedral in Nice (there are so many nice souvenirs that would look great in some Datchas or Penthouses in Moscow) and also on the Imperial Guard Museum in Paris (how long before it will be relocated in Leningrad or Moscow ?).

Thanks God, Pashkov, Chaperon, and a few others Russian emigrees collecting Imperial Russian and white armies badges-orders-medals and others souvenirs, are not here anymore to see what's going on nowadays !!! R.I.P.

They are killing the Russian emigrees a second time. The FSB is achieving what the Tcheka had started. In the thirties the Russian communists would kidnapped the Russian emigrees (General Miller and General Koutiepov for instance) and bring them back to Russia to kill them. Now they are bringing back their souvenirs !

Yours sincerely

Bill