Bavarian MVK1XsKr

[Ed Maroli]

I recently found this gem at a local show. Any comments on what type this is and who the maker could of been?

Thanks, Ed

[Ed Maroli]

close up,

[Ulsterman]

There are a number of fakes of these out there and apparently this knowledge is widely known in the BRD. There were some cryptic comments made last year about being able to spot modern repros by the enamelwork within the belt, but honestly , I am not certain what that's all about.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can tell us what to look for.

[Ed Maroli]

reverse

[Ed Maroli]

Crown

[Ed Maroli]

A thin black outline around each letter, scroll,and belt hole.

[Franken75]

A thin black outline around each letter, scroll,and belt hole.

This MVK with crown and swords is made by Leser, but unfortunately in its Original it was an MVK 2.Class with crown and swords which was later gilded. Leser did those first classes with crown and swords too, but there exist only early types with the front side center made out of pure gold.

[Ed Maroli]

This center medalion is made of pure gold and is not plated. Are there any pictures available for the early type with the gold center. Also by early do you mean 1866 or pre WWI?

Thanks, Ed

Edited January 22, 2008 by Ed Maroli

[Franken75]

Can you make better pics from the lion at the backside.

Maybe after I can tell you more.

Regards

Edited January 22, 2008 by Franken75

[Ed Maroli]

Here is a close up of the lion. ~Ed

[Franken75]

Here is a close up of the lion. ~Ed

By early I mean the early types from WW1, the MVK with crown was founded in 1913.

This MVK is about 1917 and unfortunately now I`m absolutely sure that it was later gilded.

Why do you think the center is made out of pure gold ?

Regards

[Ed Maroli]

side

[Ed Maroli]

There is no silver showing anywear in the center piece and a plating would of worn off. Can you please post some photos of real examples?

~ Thanks,Ed

[Claudio]

I had to remove the pictures I posted, because I took them without permission from another forum. MEA CULPA! My idea was to educate people on the many fakes and the few originals in circulation.

My most sincere excuses to those who felt offended by using and making public their pictures in this thread!

Edited January 23, 2008 by Claudio

[Claudio]

I had to remove the pictures I posted, because I took them without permission from another forum. MEA CULPA! My idea was to educate people on the many fakes and the few originals in circulation.

My most sincere excuses to those who felt offended by using and making public their pictures in this thread!

Edited January 23, 2008 by Claudio

[Claudio]

I had to remove the pictures I posted, because I took them without permission from another forum. MEA CULPA! My idea was to educate people on the many fakes and the few originals in circulation.

My most sincere excuses to those who felt offended by using and making public their pictures in this thread!

Edited January 23, 2008 by Claudio

[Claudio]

I forgot to say that, for the early types up to 1916, it's quite evident the multi-pieces construction of the center medallion...

I would love to adquire a medal bar with a REAL MVK 1. Kl. If anybody knows somebody selling it, please let me know!!!

I also know a very big Bavarian collector and part-time dealer and also museum curator that sold me several of these pieces that he upgraded himself in his atelier... I saw the atelier... He never told me that the pieces he sold me were upgraded, though! That's why his prices were so good... no wonder all his pieces looked like brand new. He's quite an artist also with enamel repairs... :-((((((

Of course in his own collection he kept only the good ones and he's not going to sell them...

My brother told me that in order to be a good collector you must be also very egoist... that's why my brother doesn't have a good collection... maybe I am more selfish than he's or maybe I only spend more...

Ciao,

Claudio

Edited January 22, 2008 by Claudio

[Ed Maroli]

Nice examples, When I say center medalion I mean the disk and not the cypher.

~ED

[Claudio]

Hi Ed,

If it's a real Gold center piece, like also the MVO, it has to have all the parts in Gold, cypher and lettering on the disk... I wouldn't settle for less... only my 2 cents...

Ciao,

Claudio

[Ed Maroli]

My piece is the same type as Claudio's Leser example.

[Ed Maroli]

Sorry if I'm confusing things. What I mean by gold center is that the center disk is gold or gold plated and then the piece is enameled.

~Ed

[Ed Maroli]

I'm not sure of this maker?

[saschaw]

My piece is the same type as Claudio's Leser example.

Yes and no - it's one class lower but upgradet, so not the same.

[Ed Maroli]

I don't want to seem foolish but I can't see the difference between the two? What would the difference be between a real "Leser" type 3 MVKVI and a MVKII that has been replated?

~Ed

[saschaw]

The medaillon is apparently not real Gold, so it should be silver gilt. I can see some greenspan (?! "Copper(II) acetate") on your picture you postet 22:28, so it's brass, copper or bronce - which makes it a bad one, in my humble opinion. As Claudio says, I'd prefer a real golden one, too.