"What does he wear?!" - your help is requested

[saschaw]

Dear Gentlemen,

I'm starting this thread to show some photos of persons with orders and decorations that I cannot recognize. It was very kind if you could help me with the decorations: some may be really hard to get, but some just for me?! I'm actually not too bad in this issue, but _we_ are so much better doing this together. I hope you like my pictures, and I hope there's much Baden stuff on those I couldn't make out for sure ...

#1 is a W?rttemberg veteran from about 1870 to 1875 with a 3 place medal bar of awards that should predate 1870. The quality of the picture isn't best, but I'd say the decoration in the middle is a W?rttemberg long service award, the last one seems to be a Baden Ged?chtnismedaille 1849. The first one should be a W?rttemberg medal, but I'm not sure what exactly. Someone might know better, so then he please tell me ...

[saschaw]

To make it faster I won't wait for answers, here's

#2, a Bavarian officer, seems to be from about or shortly before 1870. He wears two decorations, the first one maybe a Bavarian 1849 (or 1866?) cross, with the second one I hope again for a Baden 1849 medal.

Yes you're right, I'm loving pictures of those ...

[saschaw]

One more, then I'll go to bed ...

#3 is taken in Dresden (Saxony) but with a "142" on his shoulders he should be Baden infantry, so I think this is _not_ a German soldier, may rather be a Russian? Am I right with this and is it posible to recognize the awards? I think those are presumably nothing special, but who knows ...

Thanks in advance Gentlemen, I pray you to get some feedback on those. I will then post some more - where these live there are even nicer ones, I guess ...

[Ulsterman]

#1 is maybe earlier I think- @1855-1865. The tied cravats/neck tie were in style about then and went out by 1865 (by in large), " even in the provinces". Note also the "Napoleon" style face hair.

He looks like a Dickens character.

I suspect medal #2 of being the Baden Kreigshelfdeinst cross for 1871 though, as the ribbon seems to match-as does the curvature of the arms of the cross. the tops apparent curve bothers me 9as the medals' rim at the top and bottom are suposed to be flat), but perhaps it is a camera trick of the light.

Might #1 be the Baden field (campaigns) medal for 1849 (no bar)?

Edited February 12, 2008 by Ulsterman

[Guest Rick Research]

Number 3 is probably one of the old model Saxon Long Service Medals (they had nice medals when everybody else had those icky pinback brooches) and the 1870 medal. I think he is some sort of a policeman and that is his personal police identity metal numbers on his straps.

Group from my friend Tom's collection.

[Wild Card]

Hello Saschaw,

I will take a guess at post #1. First the easy part - I agree that the middle decoration is a W?rttemberg long service cross, most likely an 1850-1864 Honor Decoration 1st class.

Now, going back to the first medal. For this, I would nominate an, according to Nimmergut ?questionably awarded?, W?rttemberg 1818-1840 gold or silver military merit medal. Then for the third medal, consider the W?rttemberg 1840-1865, again gold or silver, civil merit medal. Aside from the suggested date range, the main reason I picked these two decorations is that they share an extremely rare ribbon which could very likely come across like what we see in the picture.

An example of this ribbon is shown below.

Regards,

Wild Card

[saschaw]

Thanks Gentlemen for your help.

I thinkt Wild Card hit the point with three W?rttembergers on the photo from Stuttgart - but rather two civil merit medals or similar than the extremely rare Military one from these days?! Consider he doesn't wear a W?rttemberg Kriegsdenkm?nze which makes him a peace time ex-NCO. The picture by the way is though taken shortly after 1870 as it came with an identical photograph of his (presumably) son wearing the Prussian 1870/71 Kriegsdenkm?nze. Ulsterman, it's nice you want to see something from Baden, but it doesn't seem to be right. The son confirms it: if they were Badeners the son would wear two medals for 1870/71 action, nut just one. So no Baden connection, pity for me.

Rick, I fear you're pretty wrong with a Saxon long service decoration on picture #3. I cannot recognize much of the medals, but take a look at the ribbons! I don't know them at all (so no German ribbons), but his uniform and even beard looks rather Russian. I may and should rather ask in the Russian section if here noones knows.

The Bavarian officer is too blurry to tell anything, am I right?

[saschaw]

#4: a civil person from Danmark or Norway, taken in Christiana wearing one single order. It's again a little blurry but may be recognizable for the gurus:

[saschaw]

#5: no question from me, but some information for you: (Marine-)Kamerad M?gge died 27.II.1929 - a date that may be addable to some lists. The picture seems to be from some veteran association's archive. These photos were offered on eBay, I got two but he had more, offered with that bad pictures you didn't know what you're bidding for ...

[saschaw]

#6: again one I actually have no questions as I _know_ yet who he is and what he wears. I though leave it as a little quiz for you - may be someone knows, too. My new favorite picture, although it's blurry. I hate many pictures beeing like this as I know they might have been better. Think about the photos on which you can read the battle clasps ...

[David Gregory]

EK, GMVK or MEZ1, MEZ2, Schaumburg-Lippe Kreuz f?r treue Dienste, DA1, China, SWA, ???

Edited February 14, 2008 by David Gregory

[Guest Rick Research]

Sascha-- I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN about the Saxon policeman. The photo is badly overexposed, which makes the white stripes look bigger than they really are, and makes the outer edge stripes disappear. The design on the Saxon long service medal--crowned AFA in a wreath-- is a precise match, and that is unmistakably an 1870 medal with the crowned W side "up" in second place. Strange ribbon mounting style, that's all.

Here is the same sloppily sewn on "Russian" style being worn by Bavarian Hauptmann Ulrich at the Kriegsakademie circa 1880--

note the identical way the outer stripes on HIS 1870 Medal and EK2 have "disappeared" and the red center stripe on HIS 1870 Medal has "expanded" over the black in the BAD FOCUS:

Thanks for excellent portrait and death date on Friedrich M?gge-- that will make eitze happy as well!!!

[Leutwein]

Hello Sascha,

the last one, with the nice colonial medal bar is Schulze- Dewitz

He received:

EK, MEZ I, MEZ II, Schaumburg-Lippe Kreuz f?r treue Dienste, DA I, DA II, the colonial medal bar with two battle clasp KAMERUN 1908/09 and KAMERUN 1912 and the last medal is the African General Service Medal with claps West Africa 1908.

Congratulation to this very nice and rare pic.

Best wishes

Leutwein

Edited February 14, 2008 by Leutwein

[saschaw]

David, you were close but Leutwein (btw, that's the Kamerun guy I mentioned on the MFF) hit the point: 100 points for him. It's Willy Schultze in about 1918 in his Feldwebelleutnant uniform from J?ger-Battaillon Nr. 3 - with one of three English African General Service Medals awarded to German soldiers. He made it to Oberst in WWII and all information I have on him are taken from "BDOS Jahrbuch 2002", thanks to Mr. D?bel for this great article.

By the way, Schultze later wore on his WWII medal bar the Prussian DAK, the Prussian Landwehr2 and the Wehrmacht 25 years award - in exactly this order.

About the other photos ...

Rick, the more I look at it I'm convinced you're right with the Saxon. Sorry for not believing in your word.

Edited February 14, 2008 by saschaw

[Great Dane]

Regarding #4:

He is wearing the Norwegian Order of St. Olav.

Christiania later changed its name to Oslo...

/Michael

[saschaw]

Ah ja - thanks Michael, makes perfectly sense and now that I know, I even recognize the decoration.

Thanks to all for the help, with combined knowledge almost any mystery can be solved.