Soviet Lt-Colonel Mikhail Avetikovich Karapetyan

[Ed_Haynes]

Wow, very interesting! So did it get the thumbs up from Alexei?

Yes, see his comments in Post #2, above.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Bryan]

Oh, it seems I had skipped that part.

I'm really happy for you! Congratulations!

[Ed_Haynes]

That could be--that was a very popular gift weapon.

But I think the large hole is where the wrist strap went through a saber hilt rather than a screw into the working mechanism of an automatic. Exact size/flat or curve will be important-- and how it attaches on back. It looks like there are bedn over wires which also wouldn't work bored into a hand gun receiver.

All is now back in hand, but ongoing computer issues (= nightmares) preclude scanning. (All is sort of on life support just now, new computer on the way, ouch.)

Size of the little metal plate? Horizontally around 64 mm, vertical dimension of 31 mm (skinny part) to 37 mm (fat part).

Scan to come when possible.

I still wonder the relationship of this scrap to the "Awarded pistol for 12th anniversary of chekist service on Chekist day 20 December 1932" mentioned above? It is certainly the same date.

[Guest Rick Research]

Well that's it for SOME "weapon," but I still can't "fit" it to a pistol.

The Russian word on these "Honor Weapon" presentations was generally "oruzhiye," which is LITERALLY "weapon" and does not specify-- a blade or a gun.

[Stogieman]

Fantastic group Ed, nice to see the real documents as opposed to so many of the copies floating about the internet!

[Wild Card]

Hi Ed Haynes,

I find that item in post #7 to be quite fascinating and wish that I could offer a definitive answer. Your suggestion in post #21 is plausible; do the measurements of your piece conform?

Do you have a copy of ?Russian and Soviet Military Awards? by V. A. Durov? In it, on page 69, he shows Budyonny?s Honorary Revolutionary (Mauser) Firearm with a plate which is not totally different from yours. I tied to visually match it to a Nagant revolver; no luck. Still, inside, as Rick Research suggests in post #22, I see yours on a saber handle; but cannot match that for sure either.

I sure hope that somebody solves this one - it bothers me.

Regards,

Wild Card

[Guest Rick Research]

We have to see the BACK, because anything used as attachment (and it looks like wires or something at the left end) could not have impeded the mechanical operation of a pistol's moving parts.

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks, Rick and William. I appreciate your help on this puzzle.

Unfortunately, I know little about firearms or such, and so need all the guidance I can get.

Likewise, I do not have the Russian original of what has been tranalsted as a ". . . pistol for 12th anniversary of chekist service . . .". Was it "pistol" or more generic "weapon"?

I have been looking closely at the image of Budyonny?s pistol ever since I got the Durov book, but the whole idea and structure here would have been quite different.

I have not held one of these Mauser pistols since high school (they had one that some WWI era graduate had presented [also had a TON of medal bars, where are they now?]). I tremble (literally) at the thought of having to go to a gun show somewhere in the Carolinas to compare the plate to the pistol. It may come down to this, though.

Honestly, this smooth little silver plate doesn't say "saber" to me, but I may be deaf. It comes closer to saying "bayonet", but I am not sure that works either. The very flay plate (64 mm x 31/37 mm is quote flat, with a single (screw?) hole and the traces of four very short pieces of wire in each of the corners of the slightly recessed reverse.

As I said, right now, my computer is very much on "life support" (with a good bit of stuff lost -- has everyone backed up recently?) and scanning offline. When things are healed (by, alas, a new computer), I'll certainly add details and scans as requested.

While I love such puzzles, this one .

Again, thanks for the interest.

And here's another pistol picture to ponder.

[Ed_Haynes]

By George, I think I've got it . . . maybe . . . .

Think: Korovin TK (introduced 1926).

Quoting (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg189-e.htm ): "Most TK pistols were either issued as self-defence weapons for high ranking officers of Red Army or above-average officials of Communists party and Soviet government, or were used as presentational pieces for various achievements."

Look at the one on the bottom (upside down sorry, image editing is dead).

Opinions?

Edited March 27, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Lapa]

By George, I think I've got it . . . maybe . . . .

Think: Korovin TK (introduced 1926).

Quoting (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg189-e.htm ): "Most TK pistols were either issued as self-defence weapons for high ranking officers of Red Army or above-average officials of Communists party and Soviet government, or were used as presentational pieces for various achievements."

Look at the one on the bottom (upside down sorry, imagie editing is dead).

Opinions?

That looks very damn close, indeed! I'd lean toward this version.

Marc

[Wild Card]

[Guest Rick Research]

There you go !!!

He got top of the line, newest technology, real senior ranker stuff, then. One of these never occurred to me, since I have rarely heard of them even for Generals etc. A VERY nice present indeed!

PS I'm sure you'd have blended right in at a gun show, Ed. As long as you got the counter password right at the door:

"How about that Dick Cheney?"

and then YOU say ...

It's always unpleasant stepping over the twitching attempted infiltrators that the security cops HAVE to tazer.

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks all. Our collective detective work is this forum at its best!

[Andwwils]

Ed,

One of Karapatyan's (sp?) identification documents from 1952 was offered for sale on collectrussia.com a few months ago. Did you see that? It was priced at 340.00 and now appears to have been sold. -Andrew

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed,

One of Karapatyan's (sp?) identification documents from 1952 was offered for sale on collectrussia.com a few months ago. Did you see that? It was priced at 340.00 and now appears to have been sold. -Andrew

Ohhhh . . . shall ask . . . however unlikely.

[Andwwils]

Ohhhh . . . shall ask . . . however unlikely.

Because of my complete lack of language ability, I can't say for certain what the id was for, but it was definitely your man. It was a photo ID with Karapetyan in his uniform from shoulders up wearing an honored employee badge and his ribbon bars. The pass was signed by Petr Smakov (sp?) and was red with hard-binding. You should be able to get some scans of it from the guy at collectrussia.com... maybe even track it down and make the new owner an offer they can't refuse.

[Haik]

Where did you get this docs and medals?