Austrian Krigsmarine officer in Turkey?

[christerd]

Hi,

What about this guy?

I bought this pic because of the "Gallipoli Star" and his KriegsMarine Uniform so I thought he was

maybe a former member of SMS Goeben or something like it.

And today the pic arrived and suprise !

Hes ribbon bar consists of Karl Truppen Kreuz - HEK - Austrian 1915-18 - ?? - Hungary war medal and ??

A Austrian in Turkey? with no combat awards ecept for a Turkey Star?

What do you say Gentlemen, any ideas?

Christer

[bob lembke]

Seems young to have a WW I decoration, whatever his service. The Gallipoli Star was given to Central Power officers that did not necessarily serve in Turkey, but I think OR had to serve there. Thr tightest span would be 1933 - 1918 = 15 years. Do you have a date or a rough date for the photo?

Bob Lembke

[Chris Boonzaier]

He has a WW1 Ehrenkreuz and a couple more WW1 ribbons.

Maybe served on "Gordons boat" ?

Best

Chris

[Chris Boonzaier]

Thr tightest span would be 1933 - 1918 = 15 years. Do you have a date or a rough date for the photo?

Bob Lembke

It must be post Anchluss as he is in a 3rd Reich uniform.

He has a HK with swords so he could well have been at the front, or at least "on the ground"... not everyone got the EK or Austrian equiv.

[bob lembke]

It must be post Anchluss as he is in a 3rd Reich uniform.

He has a HK with swords so he could well have been at the front, or at least "on the ground"... not everyone got the EK or Austrian equiv.

I don't know beans about medals and naval uniforms, so I only ran with the Hackenkreuz. So doesn't he seem young for a minimum 1918 to 1938 span (20 years), and more likely 1915-1938, 23 years?

Bob Lembke

[Chris Boonzaier]

Some guys just keep the baby face.... this guy would have looked at 60 like Keith Richards did at 20.... its all in the Genes (and bottle)... ;-)

[922F]

Last ribbon looks like a Bulgarian WW I commemorative

[Guest Rick Research]

Right-- and I can't imagine what the 4th ribbon is unless it is the "no stripes" Karl 1918 "Wound" Medal for sickness/non-combat injuries.

This must date circa 1940, so he's 40 or so. Germans could and did receive the Austro-Hungarian Troop Cross while assigned to A-H units. that happened fairly frequently, oddly enough. He's wearing it like an Austrian would-- ahead of his Hindenburg, but he COULD still have been a German.

For a non-career navy guy, that's fairly high rank-- I wonder if he'd been in the merchant marine between the wars and earned some sort of "seniority" that way? That would, again, suggest a German national since Austria had no coast after 1918. Confusssssssssssing.

Despite the fact that he is wearing his reefer jacket with no apparent SHIRT, he is actually (and this is quite unusual) CORRECTLY wearing the Turkish War Medal star without a ribbon bar ribbon for it. Regulations were one OR the other, but not the usual both most often incorrectly worn.

TWMs were handed out by Germans like candy, suspiciously with the nominal date of 30 October 1918 (Turkish armistice day) more or less to literally everyone who was there then. I suspect most were naughty backdated awards from the long months of internment awaiting transport home.

As usual, cannot tell what maker of TWM this is.

[bob lembke]

Rich;

To veer a bit OT for a second.

My father fought at Gallipoli, in the volunteer Pionier=Kompagnie. He told me that he "earned" the Turkish Star. I have a few medals from him, but the earliest of the ones I have was awarded Spring 1918.

Did he automatically "earn" the Star for having fought there? Would he have been given one physically? Or just the right to go out and buy one? There seem to be so many privately made ones.

What I am asking is:

1) Can I feel confident that he did indeed "earn" one?

2) I am thinking of obtaining a set of his decorations and frame them together, keeping my three originals (EK II, wound badge, Hindenburg Cross) elsewhere. What sort of Turkish Star would be representative of an EM/OR? I am not looking for the perfect collector's item, but a representative example.

Any advice appreciated. You seen to know a lot about the decoration.

Bob Lembke

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes indeed. They were "real" awards in 1915... 1916... 1917... but since German officers as lowly as independent platoon commanders were authorized to hand them out (presumably by writing up the paperwork and not actually with piles of the stars on hand) they devalued dramatically.

Anything dated 30.10.18 is dubious and amounts to Being There.

[Josef Rietveld]

Yes indeed. They were "real" awards in 1915... 1916... 1917... but since German officers as lowly as independent platoon commanders were authorized to hand them out (presumably by writing up the paperwork and not actually with piles of the stars on hand) they devalued dramatically.

Anything dated 30.10.18 is dubious and amounts to Being There.

That is the point. I once started a thread in the sammlergemeinschaft deutscher auszeichnungen abbout the inflationary mass of german-turkish documents (besitzzeugnisse) dated 30.10.1918.

The are never accompanied by a corresponding turkish document. The date itself is no coincidence. On the same day the Ottoman Empire signed the ceasefire of Mudros with the Allied Forces.

It seems that because of the ottoman collapse a cornucopia of ottoman awards was gushed on the german troops even very unlikely combinations like the iftihar-medal (arts/science) with sabers.

haynau

[christerd]

Hi all, and thanks for the comments

Sorry to say, the pic has no date or anything written on the back

but still interesting, I just bought another pic with a WWII soldier wearing TWM, as soon as it arrives I will post it here.

Thanks again, theese card is always a fountain of mysteries

Christer