Medal bar with Belgium award

[Noor]

Hi,

Just wondering, what anothers think about this bar and is it trackable (especially now, when Hanseatic Cross roles are around ).

[Guest Rick Research]

Around... but NOT DONE YET.

[Ulsterman]

apparently already underway in Germany by at least 2 people. My garbled Cd roll is sitting awaiting review next year.

In the meantime, I've had the great fortune been drawn/invited to another, more ... ... exciting project.

Note this medal bar didn't use the hooks, but was sewn in. I'd wager 50p that the wearer was in the navy somehow and later went on to a merchant marine career of some sort.

I spent some of last week literally sitting in a dank reading room that reminds me of the Hogwarts library.

But what I have found so far is very,very cool.

Edited April 14, 2008 by Ulsterman

[Stijn David]

Hello Noor,

Very interesting medalbar isn't it

I think that the clue is the belgian 'Miitair ereteken aka Decoration militaire'. Sadly for us there is no listed (read award lists, etc....) info yet found of awardings of these towards non belgian subjects.

The Hamburg cross linked towards the Southwest medal can already produce a list, however expect it to be rather large. Then you still have to find that list (iff it exist => that is unkown at this point) and check all found Germans with the listing you have found.

So, sadly at this point not tracable except with extreme luck

Cordial greetings,

ps: love that bar

[Hendrik]

Hello Noor,

For what it's worth : the Belgian "Military Decoration, Article 4, 2nd class" has the King Leopold II cypher on its reverse and was thus awarded between 1865 and 1910 ... it's likely to be an award for lifesaving.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Stijn David]

Hello Timmo (= Noor)

Do you know if any silver markings or otehr marks are visible on the 'Militair ereteken'? Iff so that could give a indication on who did produce it and with that a idea on when it was approx. made.

This medalbar has been shown once before in our SKF (http://www.skf-vzw.org ) newsletter back in 2005 iff im not mistaking.

Thanks Heiko => i am so ashamed i did miss on that one , mondaymornings are not my best => you are correct offcoarse, that is the China medal.

Cordial greetings,

Edited April 14, 2008 by Stijn David

[HeikoGrusdat]

Stijn.....this is the german medal for china - not for africa......this guy has never seen africa during his military career - maybe on holidays...

[Stogieman]

Well, it's a pretty special bar anyway you look at it!

[Guest Rick Research]

The wearer was not in the German military on 22 March 1897 (no Centenary Medal), but was in China 1900/01.

The long service medal here is for 12 years-- a class which did not exist before the M1913 medal itself was created.

He did not have contiunuous military service from China until the end of the World War or he'd have had a XXV Cross with double time, so....

This was a career enlistment Sergeant or Petty Officer who served between 1897 (no earlier, if joined 1 April) and say 1912, leaving the military before the war. His China service would have counted as "double time," but he did NOT get an XV Years Service bar which could have been turned into a M1913 Cross later. So he served a 12 years term (which began between 1897 and 1899) and then left before the 1914 war, being called back up out of the reserves.

That would likely have made him an Offizierstellvertreter or Feldwebelleutnant if he was in the army, but still only a Petty Officer in the navy duing the Big War.

He would have actually earned an IX Years service brooch M1825, but decided-- as was quite common--that since he had served 12 years, he was entitled to that medal retroactively.

I wish there was some way to FIND these really weird, interesting foreign awards to German NCOs.

[Ulsterman]

I'd wager he was in the navy and then the merchant marine and navy again.

Could there be a Belgian list of life saving awards from 1900-10 perhaps?

[Hendrik]

Could there be a Belgian list of life saving awards from 1900-10 perhaps?

Hello Ulsterman,

Unfortunately, there's no such list.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Noor]

Do some German rank lists point out foreign awards as well or not?

Also is there (for a sale) lists of the China and Afrika campain medal owners? How many Germans approx served in China?

[Guest Rick Research]

Rank Lists vary between each of the 4 armies and the navy, between Imperial and Weimar eras. There are an inexplicable number of GERMAN awards that were never shown let alone foreign ones.

But there are NO Rank Lists that show NCOs. The Navy showed Deckoffizier (Warrant Officers)... and that's it.

There IS apparently a list of China and Southwest Africa campaign medal recipients, but the Research Gnomes are so few and so busy on other things none have gotten to it yet.

I'd say about 20,000 or so served in China.

[David M]

In the meantime, I've had the great fortune been drawn/invited to another, more ... ... exciting project.

Well dont be shy, tell us all about it

[Ulsterman]

Well dont be shy, tell us all about it

Well, I'll give you a hint- a stout and elderly nun guards the doors watching me while I sit in the rather cool and dank library.