Bavarian MVK or MVO

[hipnos]

Surely some of you can give me a clear picture of the precedence orden of this Bavarian Cross.

As I know:

First: The Military Verdients Order, (MVO) This is the one with blue enamels and w/ or wo/ flames , w/ or wo/swords, etc...(Can Have crown too??)

Second: The more common Military Verdienst Kreutz (MVK)...There are 3 classes or not ? (Silver , bronze...there exist a gold one??), the crown is a subgrade ?;... the zinc crosses are time war crosses corresponding to a silver class??? or another different lower class?

Please some know-how!!

Thanks...

Miguel

[Stogieman]

Bavarian Milit?r=Verdienst Kreuz (1900-1905)

Blue enameled silver cross, no flames between the arms.

Enameled center (black) with Gold "L" cypher for King L?dwig surrounded by white enameled ring with motto Merenti. Swords were established late, but were a strictly "private-purchase" item prior to 1905.

Only one (1) grade of the MVK as noted above.

Bavarian Milit?r=Verdienst Kreuz (post-1905)

Third Class-Copper Colored Cross

(Note-some third classes were issued late in 1918 made out of fine-zinc)

Second Class-Silver Cross, White/black enameled center, obverse

First Class-Gilded Cross with white/black enameled center, obverse.

This award comes on the statute ribbon-white with two equal, deep blue stripes.

If awarded for war-merit, swords may be given. Ribbon changes by the addition of two black stripes outside the blue, blue stripes are narrower.

A third ribbon for "Beamter" uses the statute ribbon with a large blue center stripe, 2 thicker black outer stripes.

First Image-MVK pre-1905

Second Image-MVK3wX, post 1905

[Stogieman]

Sorry, took a few moments to create. Here's a panorama of various grades of the BMVK

Far left is the Model 1905 Cross, then First through Third Class (Left to right)

Far right, scarce fine zinc cross.

[Stogieman]

The Bavarian Milit?r=Verdienst=Orden gets a little more complicated. I don't have many images to show as this gets very scarce and very expensive outside of the bottom grade of Fourth Class. This Order adds flames between the arms of the cross, post 1905. Ribbons remain the same as noted above for Fourth and Third Class. Never seen the neck crosses, but I would assume the ribbons repeat that of the lower orders. The Order also adds a pin-back Officer's Cross that is drop-dead beautiful to behold....

Here's an example of a Fourth-Class Order, peace-time on the statute ribbon:

[Ed Maroli]

Here is a link to an old post that may help. ~Ed

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=22607

[Stogieman]

Thanks Ed, that listing is perfect! Miguel. That link will give an awesome breakdown of classes, types, numbers awarded. My posts will give you some basic visuals to get you started.

[Stogieman]

Here's an example of the Third Class Cross on the Beamter Ribbon. Also, it would be a second award, with crown.

[pinpon590]

Hello Gentlemen's

Little history of the MVO

The Bavarian order for military merit was created on july 19th 1866 by king Ludwig II, for military services.

Two ribbons : whithe edge blue (peace) or whithe edge blue and black (war)

The cross can be awarded with swords for war merit, or with crown for exceptionnal merit.

Before 1905, classes were :

Grand-cross

Grand commander

Commander

Officier cross

Knight 1st class

Knight 2nd class

Merit cross 1st class

Merit cross 2nd class

After 1905 :

Grand cross

1st class cross with star

2nd class cross with star

2nd class cross

3rd class cross

4th class cross

Cross for military merit 1st class

Cross for military merit 2nd class

Cross for military merit 3rd class

I hope this will help you !

[pinpon590]

Here is my 3rd class merit cross, wth swords and crown and a little bar with 3rd class merit cross with only swords

Edited May 6, 2008 by pinpon590

[pinpon590]

2nd class merit cross, with crown and swords

[pinpon590]

1st class merit cross with swords

Edited May 6, 2008 by pinpon590

[Ed Maroli]

Here is another link to a usefull thread. ~Ed

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21270

[Stogieman]

Thanks Gentlemen, this should give Miguel and anyone else with an interest a lot to absorb & learn. Now that's what it's all about!

Cheers!

[Alex K]

Just to add to the information overload, a BMVO 5th class with swords by Jacob Lesser.

Alex K

Edited May 6, 2008 by Alex K

[hipnos]

Thanks Gentlemen, this should give Miguel and anyone else with an interest a lot to absorb & learn. Now that's what it's all about!

Cheers!

Thanks a lot, the only thing i don?t understand very well is that with the crown is a higher subclass than without...??? The same as in the Bulgarian bravery cross order, the 4th class is subdivided in 1st degree and second degree...?

Miguel

Edited May 6, 2008 by hipnos

[Stogieman]

Alex, did you mean Fourth Class?

The addition of the crown denotes an additional, or subsequent award of the same grade of each class.

i.e. a second award.

"sub-class" isn't really the appropriate word in english. (I know, a second language for Miguel?)

Example: a Captain receives the MVO4wX (Fourth Class with Swords) for an engagement.

A month later he is awarded the Fourth Class a second time... He would be required to turn in his existing Fourth Class award. Upon receipt, they would issue him a Fourth Class award with the crown.

Rick Research actually has paperwork from the Bavarian Orders Chancelry that addresses this very practice!

[hipnos]

Alex, did you mean Fourth Class?

The addition of the crown denotes an additional, or subsequent award of the same grade of each class.

i.e. a second award.

"sub-class" isn't really the appropriate word in english. (I know, a second language for Miguel?)

Example: a Captain receives the MVO4wX (Fourth Class with Swords) for an engagement.

A month later he is awarded the Fourth Class a second time... He would be required to turn in his existing Fourth Class award. Upon receipt, they would issue him a Fourth Class award with the crown.

Rick Research actually has paperwork from the Bavarian Orders Chancelry that addresses this very practice!

Thanks Stogieman...that?s cristal clear now.

And, Thanks too, for the lenguage corrections, please don?t stop to tell me about all the un-english words that I misuse...I?m a self-taught person in English, and For me is important if you understand enough of my babble to got my idea...

Regards

[Guest Rick Research]

The crosses WITH crown were

1) for a second additional award of the same class without Crown

OR

2) as a primary award, given to people by their RANK.

So a Military Merit Order 4X with Crown was given to a Major as his very first and single award but a Lieutenant or Captain received the BMV4X with no crown for his first award, and then could receive the Crown to that same class as an additional award.

If that happened, he had to RETURN the award without crown before he could receive the decoration with Crown.

Bavarian Foot Artillery Hauptmann Julius Bielke was awarded the BMV4X on 29 December 1914:

In 1918, as a second award, he was proposed for the BMV4X WITH CROWN-- but first he had to RETURN his BMV4X!

Here is his receipt, signed after he received the BMV4X promising to be sure that it would be returned undamaged after his death (charming!), and stamped by the Orders Chancery that they had received it, so that he could be issued his BMV4XmKr!

And THEN he got his BMV4X with Crown!

Notice that even though his BMV4XmKr award document was per 30 May 1918, he would not have been GIVEN the expensive decoration until AFTER the Chancery attested that they had received his even more expensive (gold centers) BMV4X on 17 July--returned for the higher award.

[hipnos]

Ok Thanks...I think Now I understand this little mess

regards

miguel

[Alex K]

Alex, did you mean Fourth Class?

Yes I did, sorry a typo error

regards

Alex