New ribbon bars (ID possible?)

[Guest Rick Research]

An Imperial regular officer who did not have XXV years of pension time got... nothing.

So say a guy was born in 1890: joined the army in 1909, served until 1920-- discharged as a Hauptmann. No military long service award. Called back up as a Hauptmann zV, promoteed one rank-- Major zV in 1942 and... no military long service.

Same for Third Reich reserve officers. They had no form of military long service awards at all.

[Noor]

I don't start new threat, I better post my new questions under old one.

Ok, here is one my new Bavarian ribbon bar. My question is....

Was it allowed to wear MVK/MVO mS and mK same time???? Also am I right to say that those devices would be indicate bouth order or cross?

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Noor:

I have seen this often before. My guess is that the first position ribbon is for the MVO IV with swords [awarded to recipient as a Leutnant after a field grade promotion (probably in the reserves) during the war]. The second position is for a MVK II with crown and swords (award received when an NCO). I do not know what the official wartime regulations stated regarding this, but in practice, it was certainly common.

This topic has been brought up previously. Rick will undoubtedly be able to comment regarding the official regulations.

This is a great WWI (or slightly thereafter) field ribbon bar. It should be noted that there is no 1905 Jubilee Medal or Long Service Award, therefore another guess is that this fellow was probably not in service before 1914 (or much before 1914).

Congratulations regarding this wonderful piece!

"SPM"

I don't start new threat, I better post my new questions under old one.

Ok, here is one my new Bavarian ribbon bar. My question is....

Was it allowed to wear MVK/MVO mS and mK same time???? Also am I right to say that those devices would be indicate bouth order or cross?

[Noor]

Thanks SPM

Also another Bavarian question regarding my today's arrival:

After, when I start puting it to the "Bavarians" displaycase.... I discover that I have already same combination...

Same time MVK/MVO ribbons looks slightly different. So, does Bavarian ribbons represents same awards or not? I don't mean that the lower one colors are more washed out. Just even this black stripe looks wider .

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: I missed the lovely sewn on one for the wartime Leutnant-- that style was most often (though not always) a favorite style of cavalry officers for their double breasted tunics. I guess with all their straps and cords and harnesses, being flexible but firmly sewn down was better than a pin back that might have snagged against something and popped off.

The two NCOs' bars just have different manufacturers' accuracy in the miniaturized ribbons. Quite common with all German awards. While full size ribbons had decreed regulation stripe widths, I don't think there ever were regulations to enforce ribbon bar size stripes. Manufacturers just got as close to full size looking as each weaving machine made. Some are quite weirdly "off." I've seen 1914 EK2 ribbons with the outer black edges as wide as the white stripes, for instance.

[Noor]

Thanks Rick,

Just arrived and can go again..... so, who wants to trade this upper Bavarian NCO bar, then please let me know.

[Noor]

Few today's arrivals...

First, great noncombatant Bavarian (?) ribbon bar. I just love it!

1. Merit Cross for War Aid

2. King Ludwig Cross

3. Hindenburg

4. Prinzregent Luitpold medal (?)

5. Long Service award (?)

6. China Boxer rebellion medal

7. Austria-Hungary Commemorative medal

So, what you guys can say about this owner. I think he was some kind a official from Bavaria, am I right? Same time he wasn't officer level, or can it even be a second row?????

[Noor]

I think this owner was Saxony NCO. Nice to see bar from 20s where own state awards come before EK2

Just would like to confirm, did I got awards right:

1. Saxony Honor Cross

2. EK2

3. FAM (this one post to be as well before EK2???)

4. Long Service Cross

5. Prussian 1897 Centenary medal

6. Weimar period veteran award

[Noor]

TR period Policeman, who served during WW1 and got:

1. EK2

2. KVKmS from WW2 period

3. Saxe-Meiningen Honor Medal for Merit in War

4. Hindenburg cross

5. Police LS award

[Guest Rick Research]

#32 was probably a Bavarian army administrative official. Impossible to tell rank from these awards, but probably in the senior-NCO-to-1st-Lieutenant range. The China would almost certainly have been a stay at home's steel. Last ribbon is Hungarian WW1 Commemorative.

#33 1st ribbon is, as you say, probably MEANT to rpresent a Saxon Honor Cross (Ehrenkreuz) but is actually the Saxon Long service ribbon. I think this is a "close enough no one will ever notice" example. Interesting how he had made an "EK sandwich" BETWEEN his two Saxon decorations! The last ribbon is for the Kyffh?use4rbund veterans' medal.

#34: Third ribbon is the Saxe-Weimar General Decoration Medal. Unfortunately he has not put bronze, silver, or gold swords on there to indicate which CLASS he got. Much scarcer than the Meiningen War Honor Medal. Silver and Gold Weimar GD Medals X 1914-18 are in the Saxe-Weimar WW1 Awards Rolls volume.

I have the rolls for the Saxe-Meiningen War Honor Medal in my closet... but am N-O-T about to type out 23,000 names of privates and Gefreiters for WW1 award pairs that can never be identified! :cheeky:

[Noor]

Thanks again!

Much better overview now! :jumping:

[Paul C]

The Bayern Militar-Handbuch (ranklist) does list the China and SWA medal for officers.

[saschaw]

Nice additions, Timo!

#29 - is that the bar that was shown on WAF, where many members said it were a four place ribbon bar? I think it was, so: now what do the GMIC guys think?! I said it is a three place ribbon bar and still say the same...

[Noor]

Yes, thats the same one and there is no doupt - its three place one! :cheers:

[Noor]

Why some people ripp some ribbons off from bar.... I bet they burn in hell

It was probably very interesting ribbon bar

[Noor]

How common combination was this - EK2/Hamburg Cross/Mecklenburg-Schwerin Military Merit Cross

[Noor]

Baden + TR ribbon bar.... like I understand Winter Campaign is in the wrong place? Ribbons are fine under blacklight.

[Noor]

My next Bavarian ribbon bar with two MVO/MVK ribbons? What they can reprsenet then - MVO and MVK or two MVK's one with Crown and Swords and second with Swords .....urrrr, wrong device in this case on the first ribbon!!!

I am confused!

[Guest Rick Research]

#41 quite comon for Xth Army Corps.

#42 little monkey fingers have played with that rearranging things. Since the tabs are too brittle (take my word for it ) to be played with MULTIPLE times, "fixing" that would simply most likely snap off the prongs and finish the job of ruining it.

#43 is perfectly normal. BMV4X and BMVK2X for a wartime Leutnant.

[Noor]

Here is one 4 place ribbon bar with the EK2 clasp. Whats the toughts?

- ribbons are fine under the "blacklight"

- plate looks good and period one

- devices have pins behind

Combination is pretty comon, isn't it?

But I don't like the "chicken" head...... so, toughts would be more then welcome.

[Noor]

Thank you Rick!!!! :jumping:

[Noor]

Is combination Hamburg-Wurttemberg-Austria and Turkey promising? Pitty about the hook now but lets just put it this way - they are old

NICE Hessen bar with Freikorps connection

[Noor]

What is the ribbon on the 5th position??? Mecklenburg Verdienstkreuz??

[HeikoGrusdat]

would fit for SOME awards from Mecklenburg............ we need to know : is it RED or is it PURPLE ???

I would guess it is purple - then it is a Mecklenburg long service cross (they had a lot of different ones for many service years but all the same ribbon...)

and

if it is red I would take one of the Mecklenburg Verdienstmedaillen as the best possibility

[Noor]

Saxony bar...