Eric Stahlhut Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Here's one I have never been able to figure out. Has anyone seen a similar example? What is the significance of the blackened oaks?This cross is slightly larger than the usual specimens one encounters. The cross is finished in that same shade of 'lemon yellow' seen on SA sport badges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted May 26, 2008 Author Share Posted May 26, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted May 26, 2008 Author Share Posted May 26, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 I'm not an expert on these but the hardware on the reverse it very unique to me. I've not seen similar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted May 26, 2008 Author Share Posted May 26, 2008 looks as though the crown (which is different than the usual one) has been blackened as well. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I'd say that poor, poor thing has been chemically stripped in caustic soaking by some Cretin Unknown and the lovely eternally unchanging chocolate bronze finish removed except where it endures in those nooks and crannies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 I'd say that poor, poor thing has been chemically stripped in caustic soaking by some Cretin Unknown and the lovely eternally unchanging chocolate bronze finish removed except where it endures in those nooks and crannies.Well, that was my first impression as well--the only thing is--the finish inside the oaks 'n crown is NOT brown, it's distinctly a black. i dunno? bastler? perhaps!it's a funky one, that's for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Hi Eric, I have never seen this cross with this type of hardware on the back or the colorization you're describing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 Hi Eric, I have never seen this cross with this type of hardware on the back or the colorization you're describing...Hiya Rick, that's why it's here. am hoping someone can enlighten us...it doesn't really matter if it is a rare piece or not.btw, the diameter is 43mm. the 'regular' EAK1 is 40-41mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 well, of course it would be nice it were a rare piece (who am i kidding.haha) but i'm not holding my breath. something about the system on the reverse tells me it could be of austrian manufacture. just a gut instinct.here's another shot of the obverse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 You can find this type setup on items like spanish crosses and wound badges made by the company of Peltz & Lorenz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 (edited) You can find this type setup on items like spanish crosses and wound badges made by the company of Peltz & Lorenz.doh! you are right don. i passed on one of those spanish crosses once because i didn't know enough about them and didn't want to risk it. the seller also didn't know what he had and was offering it at a very reasonable price. a few months later i saw a thread about this type.... ok, i guess the next step would be to verify if Petz & Lorenz (Unterreichenbach) actually sold these crosses. does anyone know of a forum member who specializes in catalogs or has a catalog/reprint of this firm from the late 30's?also, did anything happen in braunschweig during the late 30s that would have caused a commemorative piece to be struck? an event such as a funeral, 20-year anniversary, etc?any theories out there?p.s. rick r: i looked very closely at the finish, and it doesn't look to be stripped. the existing finish is actually coming off of one of the cross arm tips, showing a darker base metal. bronze or copper-ish.thank you, guys! Edited May 27, 2008 by Eric Stahlhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesley Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 p.s. rick r: i looked very closely at the finish, and it doesn't look to be stripped. the existing finish is actually coming off of one of the cross arm tips, showing a darker base metal. bronze or copper-ish.Also... if this had been (badly) stripped, wouldn't the original finish still reside insidethe 9, 4, & A (in addition to the oak leaves and crown)?Instead, this looks like it was intended to place specific emphasis on the oak leavesand crown. The previously mentioned idea that this piece might have been producedin conjuction with a memorial event looks (at least) possible . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 (edited) btw, i'm rather shocked and dismayed that this thread has been up for over 24 hrs. and no one has bothered to point out that i should have referred to this item as a BrK1. heh! Edited May 27, 2008 by Eric Stahlhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 Yes, there is some similarity of the catch to a few WW2 pieces (wound badges for sure) but I don't recall seeing a Spanish Cross like this and I have no recollection of a pin/hinge set-up like this on any pieces I've seen/handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) You can find this type setup on items like spanish crosses and wound badges made by the company of Peltz & Lorenz.apparently the firm of klein & quenzer, idar/oberstein also used this type of catch. here is an image of a triple-marked (kq,65,42) black wound badge--courtesy of fellow forum member don. thank you for allowing me to post this, don! Edited October 2, 2008 by Eric Stahlhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 For Stogie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike K Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 apparently the firm of klein & quenzer, idar/oberstein also used this type of catch. here is an image of a triple-marked (kq,65,42) black wound badge--courtesy of fellow forum member don. thank you for allowing me to post this, don! No, the two catches you are comparing are very, very different.RegardsMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 hi mike,really? in what respects? the construction seems similar to me, other than a rounded corner and extended catch base. can you elaborate? thanks!best, ~e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike K Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Hi Eric,You've already hit the nail on the head. Yes, the production method for the catches on the WB and the EA1 were probably similar (both die-struck) but I can pretty much guarantee you that the long "footprint" on the EA1 was used by very few makers - certainly not K&Q to my knowledge. The catch on the K&Q WB is actually quite common to many WB makers (eg "30" for a start) and was used on early tombak through to later steel WBs. The shape of the catch on your EA1 (very nice variant by the way!), in particular the long "footprint", was used by very few makers that I am aware of. It is most commonly found on SA and DRL Sports badges, and also on some early L/17 WBs (similar shaped catch but a different production method though). As already mentioned, this catch, in COMBINATION with an almost unique "post" hinge and folded over pin, has been found on very few badges - the SpanX (the L/18 above is a genuine example with a probably genuine marking HOWEVER it is very unlikely Mayer was the maker - more likely they sourced it from the original manufacturer which they are believed to have dome for many of their badges - the Mayer story is not clear but), "Spanish" pattern WBs, U-boat badges and Imperial (Prussian) EK1s (my example is one-piece oversized at 44.5mm) - all of which imo point to a mid- to late 30s (very earliest 40s) period.RegardsMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Stahlhut Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 hiya mike, thanks very much for taking the time to add your insight and experience to this thread. as usual, your comments are highly informative and have added greatly to the discussion. and mr. doering, thank you for adding the image of the swc. i popped the image of don's w/b onto the thread because i was trying to establish some type of link with this strange piece to a documented piece that displayed similar characterisics. i wasn't going to rule out any possibilties.best regards! ~ep.s. mike, your comment about the 44.5mm EK1 has caused a spark to go off in my dim bulb! i just may still have an example somewhere. at least i had one at some point in time... :speechless: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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