Bob Hunter Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 The latest little treasure from my favorite cigar smoker! [attachmentid=12988]
Stogieman Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 One of the things that is significant about this bar is to consider how much time passed between the award of the medal and the official sanctioning of the bars themselves. You can tell he mounted the bar after the medal was already mounted by the 'pinch" of the cloth. The Evil One, Rick Research can provide the specific dates/details.
Guest Rick Research Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 Ah, this is one of those sooooo early ones, I do NOT have hard numbers or dates. Colonial forays of this period were often a matter of a dozen or so Germans and perhaps 100 hired mercenaries (Arab or African). So whether there were 10 Germans eligible for this, or 100--TWENTY SIX YEARS passed before the medal was created. Given the usual lifespans then, the prospects of even earlier demises from Horrid And Icky tropical pestilences, and simply FINDING people to even be aware that they WERE eligible for these medals (I have no idea if there was a cut-off date for applications, but wouldn't be surprised either way if they went on through the World War OR were abandoned for the duration, so anyone without theirs by Augsut 1914 never got one.But this is one of the more valuable bars from the price guides, so I presume the numbers ELIGIBLE are "larger" than those who eventually GOT one.Maybe Heiko will know?
Stogieman Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 And a big Thank You to RR for adding his take on this little gem!
HeikoGrusdat Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 Hi all, I would like to see a better picture of the battle clasp if you have.... in the moment there are floods of fakes around especially on ebay but at the military traders also... these are not the old fakes, they are new (last 2 years) and are looking like high tech work from silicon valley maybe made by Mr.Skywalkers laser sword... I have two different types of the 1884 bar that are 100% authentic but to say something about this one I need a close up. Here are some of my Kamerun bars...Heiko
Bob Hunter Posted October 13, 2005 Author Posted October 13, 2005 (edited) Heiko, here are some closeups of the bar. I welcome your comments. It sure doesn't look like yours... Edited October 13, 2005 by Bob Hunter
HeikoGrusdat Posted October 13, 2005 Posted October 13, 2005 Hi Bob,it is hard to say but I think yours is a fake as well... please have a look at my picture: these are all brandnew "lasermade" battle clasp copies - perfect fakes, but too perfect!!! All look EXACTLY the same - and unfortunately - they look like yours... This is the style of the actual ebay copies... many people are buying many clasps for a lot of money. They do not know much about history... there are much more clasps on the market than germany ever had colonial troops. During the last year there were on ebay germany 10 Ponape, 6 Venezuela, 12 Togo, 6 Neuguinea, 9 Kamerun... many from china and the rare ones from DSWA (Fahlgras, Toasis) - of course all the same style. I have about 80 original colonial battle clasps and another 120 originals mounted on bars - a lot of material to compare. And I have about 20 different fake types of battle clasps... I think I know what I am talking about, I am sorry for your purchase and for you but that`s my opinion...here are some of my "lasercopies" and just one of many running auctions on ebay germany with exactly this fake style...please compare it with yours, look at the letters.all the bestHeiko
Bob Hunter Posted October 13, 2005 Author Posted October 13, 2005 (edited) Well shucks! Thought I had a trophy there. Thanks Heiko. But let me be the the Devil's advocate for a moment and pose a couple of questions. Where are the fake Kamerun 1884 bars? I haven't noticed a lot on US Ebay maybe they appear on Ebay Germany. No point in faking a few so I wonder where they rest are? I'm curious ...do you have an example of a fake Kamerun 1884 bar? Anybody? Edited October 14, 2005 by Bob Hunter
HeikoGrusdat Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 They are concentrated in germany, three cities and regions where they mainly come from... they appeared on the scene 2-3 years ago and they are completely new... I see 3 tyes of these new fakes: 1. like mine in the left picture 2. like mine but with a bit of age 3. like yours... same perfect style but material looking aged.Put them under a microscope, perfect lines like from aliens made... I have seen a lot (hundreds) original medal bars from id?d owners or directly from the family and many of you have shown other nice pieces here: NO ONE OF THE 1000% ORIGINALS FROM A DIRECT SOURCE HAVE THESE BATTLE CLASPS ON IT - they are definately new.I will see if I can find a Kamerun 1984 fake photo, but the letters are completely the same with all years on it...here again is a good photo of a good one... Heiko
HeikoGrusdat Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 I will go through my collection on tuesday and get scans of all types of battle clasps that I have... all sizes, all types of writing, all inofficial and private clasps... there are too many fakes around, all serious collectors should no longer spend too much money for to much bullsh... Maybe we can handle this thread then as a "important one" and put it on top of the list that everybody can always look at it before wasting moneyHeikoattached are more of these fakes...
Stogieman Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Heiko, are those fakes you are showing with flat prongs??
HeikoGrusdat Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Hi Rick,whatever you want.... round ones, flat ones... but they are all too good. The ends of the prongs are looking as cutted just a minute ago, the letters are looking like cutted out with a laser... the latest type of these fakes with aged surface are looking like they were scratched with some kind of tool to give them more age, but you can see it very good with a magnifying glass (if you know what you are looking for...)The problem is that all the guys here in germany are buying these clasps without enough knowledge of them and their history... and the military dealers are a bit confused as well, some of these fakes have been given an "OK" by some Hamburg dealers. I can`t understand this because some years ago these clasps did not exist in this kind of making and now they are ok and hundred years old ??? One rare DSWA clasp like the ones shown is just in by Kalies for 200 Euro...attached is a picture of the reverses and I will see if I can find more examples in my computer...Heiko
Stogieman Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Thanks Heiko, if it turns out the clasp is bogus I guess I can count myself in good company with others that are/have been fooled. One difference though, this Kameroon clasp has different shaped numbers from the fakes shown. (??)
HeikoGrusdat Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 I cant`t find a faked 1884 clasp in my computer right now but I keep on searching... here is another one, looks really old.....
medalnet Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) For a change some real ones Edited March 1, 2011 by medalnet
Leutwein Posted March 4, 2011 Posted March 4, 2011 @medalnet Nice bar Could it be the medal bar of Oblt. Stage??? But I´m not sure if it´s an "officer-medal-bar" Could you post perhaps the whole bar?? Best wishes Karsten
medalnet Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Karsten, will post soon. It's an officers bar and yes one of the necessary bar is missing for a full Feldartillerie (reitende) history :whistle:
Claudius Posted April 28, 2011 Posted April 28, 2011 Bonjour, A bavarian ribbonbar. Crdl Thierry Nice medal bar, but it could really use a replacement medal. Without its Prinzregent Luitpold medal it is like a smile with a missing tooth. Shouldn't be too hard to find one. It's almost special as a bar to a WWI vet who DIDN'T earn an EK2.
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