An ordinary veteran's bar with an interesting feature.

[Bob Hunter]

Another veteran's bar a little to the south side of rough but with an interesting medal, the Mecklinburg-Strelitz Tapfer und True Kreuz which in not too frequently encountered.

[Bob Hunter]

reverse

[Bob Hunter]

and a close up of the T&T.

[Claudio]

Hi Bob!

Nice bar you got... I still have to find a medal bar with the Mecklemburg's Tapfer und Treu cross.

The owner of this bar was a bit naughty... he shouldn't have put his "Treu dem Bat/Rgt" cross on this bar, since these veterans' decoration were not permitted to wear after the introduction of the "Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer". Nevertheless a really nice bar! congratulations!

Ciao,

Claudio

[Chip]

Not to shift the spotlight away from your T&T cross (which is very nice), but would that be the correct ribbon for the REK (Treu dem Regiment cross)? It is not one of the variations that I have seen for the ribbons that were worn with these crosses.

Chip

[Claudio]

@ Chip: you're quite right. It seems like the ribbon for another veterans' decoration. I know that there was a very similar ribbon to be worn on the such Treu der Batt/Regt. crosses for the Kriegsmarine, but then the inscription on the cross shouldn't be Treu der Marine? By the colour of the fabric on the back of this bar (dark red), it doesn't seem to be Kriegsmarine, though...

Ciao,

Claudio

[notned]

Nevertheless its an Nice all cross bar!

One thing about it that interests me...is that it seems to be a wide bar, having the extra clip in the middle. I have a 5 placer that is alot narrower in width <> ways...and does not have the extra clip either

Good observation Chip...the ribbon looks like the one for the Ordensrat der Deutschen Ehrenlegion e.V (detlevs description not mine) and yes it should not be there with the Hindenburg cross.

Cheers

Paul

[Stogieman]

Well, that is actually probably true to a point. There's so many variations of ribbons on the veteran's pieces that I never even considered that. The Ehren-Legion medal is cheap and easy to find, so no trouble to restore the bar. Regarding the presence of both a Veteran's Medal and the FEK.... There was a period between institution of the FEK and banning of all other "unofficial" veteran's pieces where they were mounted together. It was this specific reason that these other pieces were banned. It was not however a simultaneous enactment and you will find literally hundreds of examples of Veteran's Crosses mounted with the Honor Cross.

[Stogieman]

And here's what would be correct for the ribbon.

[Bob Hunter]

Good eye, Chip. Looks like a medal was incorrectly replaced somewhere along the time line from then to now...

[Chip]

Bob,

When you find the correct medal and you have no further use for the REK, I will be happy to buy it from you.

Good eye, Chip. Looks like a medal was incorrectly replaced somewhere along the time line from then to now...

Chip

[Bob Hunter]

Chip, the party from whom I purchased the bar is going to make it right with the correct medal. The REK will be his to dispose of. If you wish PM me and I will put you in touch with him and you both can work out the details.

[notned]

Bob, that is very Gentlemanly of the seller to replace the medal with the original type.

Its good to hear of these things happening! as it bodes well for us collectors.

Regards

Paul

[Bob Hunter]

Paul, I won't name the seller but you can probably guess. A gentlemen whose integrity and credentials are impeccable. Unlike you or me he is fallible as this thread indicates.

He is not nearly the rake, rogue and scoundrel I make him out to be although I'm not so sure about his evil twin...

[Stogieman]

An update on this bar. I had it shipped back to me and while it is true that the Treue dem Battalion Cross is mounted on the wrong ribbon, based upon careful examination of the bar, both RR & I feel very strongly that the original owner mounted it and wore it this way!! Each piece is clipped to the (front mounting) spring-loaded clips we find and then stitched into place. the stitching matches across the bar, so it seems we have one of those bizarre cases of "wrong is right".

Not regulation.

Not on the right ribbon.

But absolutely the way its' owner intended!!

[Guest Rick Research]

The very presence of the veterans' piece with the Hindenburg Cross (which replaced all such vanity pieces and banned them) is non-regulation--

but we find that over and over again on 1934/35 bars. This guy must have figured he could get away with wearing TWO different such pieces in one spot and "nobody will ever notice."

Ha!

But in my opinion, based on decades of handling The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, it is not what WE want that matters but what the original recipients wore in their own lifetimes that matters.

How many medal bars have we seen with the Iron Cross reversed back to front? Wrong, sure, but PERIOD wrong.

My absolute favorite is a ribbon bar worn by a WW2 admiral in Norway and now in Simon Orchard's collection wearing one of these BANNED 1920s pieces: and it shows in his wartime photos. It was sooooo obscure, he must have figured everyone thought it was something "exotically foreign."

I would never have BELIEVED it, but we have period photographic evidence of that particular regulations abuser WEARING the thing.

Ugly, yes? But as the original owner WORE it.

[Bob Hunter]

Points taken gentlemen. I will leave the bar as is.

[notned]

Valid point Mr Research! indeed.

I too have an EKII that is mounted 'backwards' on a Wurttemberg Trio...

I am going to leave it as it is...as the medal has been sewn onto the ribbon bar by the owner..

so as RR says...sometimes the owners were quirky in their own way...

so as custodians of their medalbars....we must honour their ways...no matter how

un-regulation they were...

Good on you Bob..too! for deciding to leave it as it was....

Nuff said

Regards from NZ

Paul

[landsknechte]

My absolute favorite is a ribbon bar worn by a WW2 admiral in Norway and now in Simon Orchard's collection wearing one of these BANNED 1920s pieces: and it shows in his wartime photos. It was sooooo obscure, he must have figured everyone thought it was something "exotically foreign."

I would never have BELIEVED it, but we have period photographic evidence of that particular regulations abuser WEARING the thing.

Do you have the photo handy?

[Ulsterman]

The Hindenburg Cross was promulgated in July 13, 1934. The ban on "unofficial" awards was promulgated on November 16, 1935 (almost 70 years ago this week).

Given it took a month or more for the ban to be published and read at meetings, that is 16+ months of 'legal' coexistence).

In the meantime, the SA-Reserve had been established (in 1933) by the forced amalgamation of the Stahlhelm and other veterans/ paramilitary associations with he SA. The Rohm pruge had occurred and the Stahlhelm were defanged with many of their senior officers either coopted, arrested, shot or exiled. The ban on vets awards was another example of the NSDAP state obliterating extra-party groups.

Given the amount of time Hitler spends in Mein Kampf slagging off his "Freikorps" allies, wearing these awards in SA/NSBO/NSKK/NSDAP/etc. meetings after an accptable "Yeah, I have to take the bar to the tailors" timeframe was somewhat dangerous.

Still, odd things did happen (see below-borrowed from ebay):

Edited November 10, 2005 by Ulsterman

[Guest Rick Research]

Evil Ricky was just by today with another prime example of a WW2 "Ugly" worn-that-way which he can post later.

[jshorter]

How many medal bars have we seen with the Iron Cross reversed back to front? Wrong, sure, but PERIOD wrong.

I too have an EKII that is mounted 'backwards' on a Wurttemberg Trio...

Hello Everyone!

I have JUST started collecting Imperial German medals and happened upon this thread as I was researching my first German medal bar. I too have a W?rttemberg trio with the EKII reversed.

Does anyone know exactly why the Iron Cross was sometimes reversed?

Thank you for any information you can provide!

Jason