Turkey To Compare , A fake and an Original Order of Osmanie

[avsaribar]

Dear Friends ,

I am pasting you the pictures of a FAKE Order of Osmanie ,

If you have any questions you can ask me.

Regards,

Avsar Ibar

[avsaribar]

And now , I am postinmg you the photos of the Original One.

Please compare

the patina ,

the enamels ,

the colors of the enamels ,

the Gold inlaid in the red centre.

and etc...

[Guest Rick Research]

Is the fake new, or an old one? Does it have real enamel, or the strange plastic sort of "cold" enamel that has taken the place of good old "glass" enamel work?

Where does the fake come from? Is it made there in Turkey for fooling new collectors?

Are there a lot of fakes-- of everything being made now?

I am thinking of the horrible quality 1915-18 Liakat medals-- when they are ORIGINAL. It wouldn't be difficult to fake something so cheap and ugly looking!!!!

Does the fake Osmanie have fake hallmarks too?

I have an old pre-1914 Austrian-made Osmanie like your REAL one!

[avsaribar]

Dear Rick ,

It doesnt have Normal Enamel , you are right they use cold made plastic .

It is a new made fake , exactly made to fool the new collectors.

The order comes to me from one of my customer , he bought it like an

original from internet. Thanks god on the behalf of Ottoman collectors ,

there are not many fakes , i mean as I saw many , none of them was

good made fake such as Russian Orders. It is very easy to understand

the Ottoman - Turkish fakes.

As you know , except of some special made and gold versions , Osmanie

Orders doesnt have hallmarks or Mint and Master marks like Medjidie Orders.

This fake also doesnt have any hallmarks.

Can you post your Osmanie here ?

If you have any questions , I will be glad to answer ,

Regards,

Avsar Ibar

Ibar Jewellery and Antiques

Edited July 8, 2008 by avsaribar

[Guest Rick Research]

My 4th Class is also on an Austrian trifold ribbon:

[avsaribar]

Thanks Rick ,

Very nice Order.

Cheers

Avsar Ibar

[paul wood]

Dear Avsar,

Some useful information and viewable imageds avaiable. Yesterdays Baldwin's Islamic coin auction held in London www.baldwin.sh had a section of Ottoman material including some nasties. Lots 608, 610, 612 were sabresd Medjidies, all of them had dubious sabres and thankfully the were not sold. 634 was a large gold sultan's medal for Egypt. This was a cast (which is even clear from the image) and was withdrawn. Also 635 (as rare as rocking horse manure) a large silver, this was also wrong and with drawn (I know of one person who took time off work to view it and was deeply dissapointed). Also 684, gilt bronzeTeshrin-i-sani 1338 (war of independence). This was a wrongun and also withdrawn. What is good is that images are available and therefore can be compared (for real sabres compare M&E ANS 2 Oct. 2006.

All the best,

Paul

[avsaribar]

Dear Avsar,

Some useful information and viewable imageds avaiable. Yesterdays Baldwin's Islamic coin auction held in London www.baldwin.sh had a section of Ottoman material including some nasties. Lots 608, 610, 612 were sabresd Medjidies, all of them had dubious sabres and thankfully the were not sold. 634 was a large gold sultan's medal for Egypt. This was a cast (which is even clear from the image) and was withdrawn. Also 635 (as rare as rocking horse manure) a large silver, this was also wrong and with drawn (I know of one person who took time off work to view it and was deeply dissapointed). Also 684, gilt bronzeTeshrin-i-sani 1338 (war of independence). This was a wrongun and also withdrawn. What is god is that images are available and therefore can be compared (for real sabres compare M&E ANS 2 Oct. 2006.

All the best,

Paul

Dear Paul ,

Hello , How are you ? Yeah I know the Baldwins Auction , even I know the owner of those Ottoman Orders and Medals who put them to the auction.

Those sabres had really dubious as you said , you are %100 right. Even the real sabres which sold M and E ANS auction , were not the only

kind of swords that can be , I mean there are also some more variations for the sabres , those ones in Baldwins didnt seem to me original.

About 634 it was cast yes , the 635 , I can not understand from the picture.

Take care , All the best ,

Avsar Ibar

[mahoni]

Hello,

here are some more fakes on ebay I believe,

Item:330257648131

330257645719

330257651710

330257658947

and more from the same seller

Regards to all

Mahoni

[avsaribar]

Hello,

here are some more fakes on ebay I believe,

Item:330257648131

330257645719

330257651710

330257658947

and more from the same seller

Regards to all

Mahoni

Dear Mahoni ,

ALL THOSE 4 items which you listed their ebay item numbers are %100 FAKE , you are absolutly right ,

also the Medjidie order from the same seller Ebay item no : 330257655909 is fake.

Regards,

Avsar Ibar

[922F]

Have you seen earlier attempts by these forgers? They offered a couple of stars on eBay last year but erred in have a Medjidie center on an Osmanie plaque and an Osmaie center on a Medjidie plaque. Maybe someone saved the pictures?

[demir]

Hi,

This person who lives in Belgium and has a connection in Turkey and in Australia.

He has been selling fake Mecidies since 2006 under different names.

Maybe it is better for us to inform the buyers.

Best wishes

Demir

[avsaribar]

Dear Friends ,

If they will come to my shop , I will try to shoot their pictures and post them here.

(I mean the fake ones) , but you can be sure that , to understand the fake and original one

in Ottoman Orders are , very easy , not like such as in Imperial Russian or Soviet ones..

By the way , Dear Demir Bey

Merhaba , (Hello) , How are you ? If you will have time to come to Istanbul ,

It will be a pleasure for me to meet you again. Best Regards to Deniz Bey.

Could you please inform us this fake sellers name on ebay ? (to inform the buyers)

Sincere Regards,

Avsar Ibar

[demir]

Hi,

This person who lives in Belgium and has a connection in Turkey and in Australia.

He has been selling fake Mecidies since 2006 under different names.

Maybe it is better for us to inform the buyers.

Best wishes

Demir

Hello,

Another fake seller in ebay is "dursen51" from Germany.

Demir

[shell shock]

Gentlemen,

I am new to your forum and am most interested in this thread.

I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the TWM's and am curious to know how you are so certain that these items are fakes.

They look OK to me (please excuse my ignorance).

What do you look for in particular when spotting fakes?

answers appreciated

[shell shock]

Thanks for that and, yes I agree, the Order of Osmanie examples look pretty suspect at best.

Maybe I'm in the wrong thread here, because it was more the Turkish War Medals that I am interested in and having trouble identifying as fakes.

I looked at the Ebay examples you noted above and they all look pretty good to me.

What do you look for in a photo:

1. The border around the stars seem to vary from maker to maker?

2. The "original" Turkish pieces seem fairly basic in design so how can you easily identify a "recent" ie post WW1 (even post WW2) and possibly non-Turkish manufactured example? (and I am talking about the "cheap" zinc-type metal here)

3. Are the colour variations or paint type of the above examples anything to go by?

4. The clasps vary in design quite substantially. Any clues here?

5. If they seem too "new" in condition would you consider them "new"?

6. The tughra design also seems open to much variety. Is any one more correct than any other?

7. Is anyone manufacturing fake enamel versions today that we are aware of? If so, any tell-tale signs?

I obviously have a lot to learn but I believe we can never learn too much.

[demir]

Hello,

Another fake seller in ebay is "dursen51" from Germany.

Demir

Hi,

Now " cinare2006 " is selling "dursen51" s fake medals etc.

Also, fake Turkish commemorative coins are being sold by Hong Kong and Chinese people. They are selling silver coins as bi-metal colored coins. They were successful and get app. USD 450 for each coin. I wrote to ebay but as usual I got some automated replies .

Best wishes

demir

http://www.darphane.gov.tr/english/madeofoutside.htm

[demir]

Hi,

Now " cinare2006 " is selling "dursen51" s fake medals etc.

Also, fake Turkish commemorative coins are being sold by Hong Kong and Chinese people. They are selling silver coins as bi-metal colored coins. They were successful and get app. USD 450 for each coin. I wrote to ebay but as usual I got some automated replies .

The Hong Kong seller is: yus18

items in ebay are: 160311344928 and 160311345269

Best wishes

demir

Turkish Mint :

http://www.darphane.gov.tr

go and click : Commerative coins and price list

then click: Commemorative Coins No Longer on Sale

in the list shown please find the original commemorative coins of which "yus18"is selling as if original:

no: 220 year: 2000 Traditional Turkish theater

no: 237 year. 2001 İznik plate

no: 238 year: 2001 32.European Basketball

Edited January 28, 2009 by demir

[avsaribar]

Dear Mr.Demir ,

Thank you very much for your information and inspection.

All the Best ,

Avsar Ibar

[demir]

Dear Mr.Demir ,

Thank you very much for your information and inspection.

All the Best ,

Avsar Ibar

Hello,

I mentioned the Hong Kong person "yus18" before, now the Chinese "chinacoin" is selling fake Turkish Commerative coins in ebay:

400027731452, 400027731255, 390027406463, 400027730448, 400027730305, 390027405930

For your info.

Best wishes

demir

[demir]

Hi,

Now " cinare2006 " is selling "dursen51" s fake medals etc.

Also, fake Turkish commemorative coins are being sold by Hong Kong and Chinese people. They are selling silver coins as bi-metal colored coins. They were successful and get app. USD 450 for each coin. I wrote to ebay but as usual I got some automated replies .

Best wishes

demir

http://www.darphane.gov.tr/english/madeofoutside.htm

Hello,

" moys-10 " from Germany is also selling same medals of above mentioned sellers. Artikelnummer: 160344141528

Also selling a TWM :Canakkale Madalyası Eiserner Halbmond 160344136828

best wishes

demir

Edited July 3, 2009 by demir

[dkcraftetc]

Hello,

I have an Osmainie order that I picked up in an antiques-shop and it looks damaged and the center looks like it has be glued back on sideways? Are these medals made in several pieces? It looks like the enamel is good? The pictures are not very-good and the medal is much brighter in person. Can you tell me if it's a real-one?

Thanks.

Alan

[avsaribar]

Hello,

I have an Osmainie order that I picked up in an antiques-shop and it looks damaged and the center looks like it has be glued back on sideways? Are these medals made in several pieces? It looks like the enamel is good? The pictures are not very-good and the medal is much brighter in person. Can you tell me if it's a real-one?

Thanks.

Alan

Dear Alan ,

Did you paste the pictures of the order which you have ? Because i can not see them here on board , if you will paste them , i will be glad to help you ...

Sincere Regards,

Avsar Ibar

Ibar Jewellery and Antiques

[dkcraftetc]

Dear Alan ,

Did you paste the pictures of the order which you have ? Because i can not see them here on board , if you will paste them , i will be glad to help you ...

Sincere Regards,

Avsar Ibar

Ibar Jewellery and Antiques

[dkcraftetc]

Dear Avsar,

I can not paste my pictures for some reason. I will try again, maybe something is wrong with my computer.

Regards,

Alan