gingerbread Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 (edited) :unsure: HiCan you give me your opinion about this KM Officer Visor cap?The chinstrap seems to be a non regular one!!!It's a non removable cover one.RegardsBen from Lorient Edited July 9, 2008 by gingerbread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbread Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 (edited) More pics Edited July 9, 2008 by gingerbread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 If you look inside the blue lining, can you tell what material is used for stiffening the headband of the cap. Normally it should be a stiff woven material like this example, either black or white, or sometimes opaque cellulose.The chinstrap isn't the regular one, at first on the photos it looks plastic but on the last photo where the edge of the strap can be seen you can tell it is indeed leather with a patent laquered finish, so seems possibly OK for the period.What I really don't like is the peak. If you look at the many original KM caps in this forum you will see that the narrow gold wire trim between the leather edging to the peak and the gilt scalloped portion is a very thin single twisted strand of wire. Also there should be little or no gap between the embroidery and the leather edgeing. This one has a wide gap.Possibly a genuine NCO cap that has been "upgraded" to officer with a fake peak ?Anyway, NOT a regulation original KM issue Leutnant cap. I would avoid this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbread Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 Hi GordonThanks for informationIf you look inside the blue lining, can you tell what material is used for stiffening the headband of the cap. Normally it should be a stiff woven material like this example, either black or white, or sometimes opaque cellulose.It's a stiff woven material but the color is a kind of red brown one. The chinstrap isn't the regular one, at first on the photos it looks plastic but on the last photo where the edge of the strap can be seen you can tell it is indeed leather with a patent laquered finish, so seems possibly OK for the period.The chinstrap is a leather one.What I really don't like is the peak. If you look at the many original KM caps in this forum you will see that the narrow gold wire trim between the leather edging to the peak and the gilt scalloped portion is a very thin single twisted strand of wire. Also there should be little or no gap between the embroidery and the leather edgeing. This one has a wide gap.I don't have your book "Torpedo Loss" in my hands but i remember to see a visor cap, from the Michel collection, with the same kind of peak with a wide gap.RegardsBen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 This exact style of peak is used on Bundesmarine caps, so you always have to be careful when you see this type, combined with other non-standard components like the chinstrap- of the possibility of a re-worked piece. Does not mean this style was never used on wartime caps, - it was - but I have never seen such a peak on a regulation cap and it always has to be a sign for caution. (Note that I refer to issue cap - I am trying to differentiate between a regular normal textbook cap obtained from the Kleiderkasse etc). The quality is also not good. See how there is a narrow gap at one end between the embroidery and the leather edging, and a much wider gap at the other end.When you move to the realms of private purchase caps (which of course is perfectly acceptable as officers were given a clothing allowance and purchased their caps- though mostly it would seem from the Kleiderkasse as the vast majority have almost identical "textbook" German style of construction and same peaks and have no maker marks - usually indicative of a contract made cap, not a privately tailored piece. KM caps because of the work involved would be far more expensive than for instance their army equivalent for an officer to buy) and those made in the occupied countries, almost anything is possible, but I'd say for me, this one is not a "regulation" German made KM cap.So the possibilities would be a genuine cap with replaced postwar peak, -- or a completely genuine wartime cap maybe made in France or some other occupied country but NOT, to me, a regulation German manufactured KM officer cap.Unless, like Michel, you are very experienced with KM caps, and have the confidence to evaluate such non-German made pieces, or know of the background and provenance for a piece, I feel that KM caps are so problematic that in my view it is always better to stick to textbook German made caps.Maybe Michel will see this and comment. For sure he has more experience on these.I would never be comfortable in purchasing something not textbook for which, even if original, so much "explaining" would have to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbread Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 :blush: Hi GordonThanks a lot for your information and your help.I will pass on this one.RegardsBen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Good decision.Regards,Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now