Ed's Indian Iceberg

[Brian Wolfe]

An exceptional collection. As always it was a pleasure to read your post and view items from your collection.

Thanks for posting them.

Cheers

Brian

[peter monahan]

Any idea of what type of tank Jemadar Rajpal Singh was using in the Deccan Horse?

The Royal Deccan Horse was designated a light tank reg't on mechanization (autumn of 1941) and first trained using 3 Stuart tanks and a number of 15 cwt. trucks. In '42 they mived to Secunderabad (mid '42) for jungle training and received Stuarts and Lees. Finally in early 1944 they were issued Shermans - probably one of the early marks, not the MK41E8 so common in WWII European theatre and as war memorials (at least in Canada).

In mid '44 the regiment went to Ranchi as part of the 255th Indian Tank Brigade and eventually to Imphal. In December 1944 they began the long march into Japanese-controlled Burma, making the 'dash' to Meitila and taking part in the re-capture of Rangoon and taking part in the mopping up of Japanese troops in Burma.

(source: The Indian Armour, Major General Gurcharn Singh Sandhu, PVSM (ret'd), Vision Books, New Delhi, 1987)

[James Hoard]

... She probably never had a chance to wear her Kaisar-i-Hind (as she died just a few months after it was awarded) ...

Isn't it more like two and a half years?

Cheers,

James

[Ed_Haynes]

As there has been some interest expressed (though, oddly, most of the interest has been in the few odd items to Europeans?), I'll add a few more items.

Ramanlal Gokaldas Saraiya

Padma Bhushan

A Compilation of the Recipients of Bharat Ratna and Padma Awards, p. 130:

"Padma Bhushan (1963)

"10. Shri Ramanlal Gokaldas Saraiya

"A pioneer in the field of cooperative Sri Ramanlal Gokaldas Saraiya has rendered valuable cooperation to develop the cooperative movement in India. He has been Chairman and Vice-Chairman of many State and All-India level organisations like Bombay State Cooperative Bank, All India Cooperative Organisation, National Development and Storage Board, etc.

"Shri Saraiya is a member of many important Commerce Organisations of the country. In 1953-54 he was Chairman of the Federation of Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry and a Director of Reserve Bank of India and Indian Insurance Corporation.

"Shri Saraiya is Chairman of Maharashtra State Road Transport Corporation since 1954. Under his skillful supervision the Corporation has made a big progress and now it is thought that among the Public Sector Undertakings its management is the best."

The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, 2nd type, Officer

Ramanlal Gokaldas Saraiya, Esquire, J.P., Partner Messrs. Narandas Rajaram and Company, Bombay - recommended by the Governor of the Punjab, 1 January 1942

Recommendation in PSV, 18(9)-H/1941:

"Mr. Saraiya is a prominent businessman of Bombay. He is a member of the Indian Merchants' Chamber, Bombay, and was appointed by the Government of India as a non-official adviser to the Indo-Japanese delegation. He is actively associated with the Indian Central Cotton Committee and has served on most of the Sub-Committees appointed by that Committee. Mr. Saraiya has been a director of the Bombay Provincial Co-Operative Bank since 1932, and its Chairman since 1938, and has done much to improve the financial position of the Bank. He is also Chairman of the Bombay Co-Operative Banks Association, and has been most helpful in organising the better working of the Urban and Central Banks in the Province. His work generally on behalf of the Co-Operative Banks has been admirable, and he also gave useful advice in connection with the drafting and introduction of the Agricultural Debtors' Relief Act. Mr. Saraiya is actively assisting the War effort. He is an A.R.P. Group Warden, has contributed generously to the War Gifts Fund, and has made large investments in Defence Bonds and Savings Certificates."

Biography in The India & Pakistan Year Book & Who's Who, 1948, p. 1307:

"SARAIYA, Ramanlal Gokaldas, O.B.E., J.P., B.A., B.Sc. Cotton Merchant and Chairman, Narandas Rajaram & Co., Ltd., Bombay. b. 16 Jan. 1898. m. Padmavati, daughter of Sir Purshotamdas Thakurdas, Kt. of Bombay, 1920: 3 s. Educ.: Gujerat College, Ahmedabad; Wilson College, Bombay and Imperial College of Science and Technology, London; Matric. (1914), B.A. (Hon.) 1919; -- Dakshina Fellow, Wilson College, 1919-20; B.Sc. (1920); took post-graduate course in Chemical Engineering in England and diploma of City and Guilds of London Institute in oils and fats and also in soap manufacturing; elected Fellow of the Chemical Society, London. After return to India, joined Rajaram & Co., in 1922; became its partner in 1926 and Vice-Chairman since its conversion fo limited company in 1944; Chairman of the All-India Co-Operative Planning Committee, 1944-45; member, Agricultural Finance Sub-Committee of the Govt. of Inda, and Co-Operative Training Committee appointed by Govt. of Bombay; Chairman, Bombay Provincial Co-Operative Bank Ltd., Bombay Co-Operative Banks Association, Bombay Board of the United Commercial Bank, Ltd.; Director, Hind Cycles Ltd., Madhusudan Mills Ltd., The United Salt Work and Industries Ltd., Sutlej Cotton Mills Ltd., Narandas Rajaram & Co. (Africa) Ltd., etc.; Vice-President, Indian Central Cotton Committee; member, Committee of the Indian Merchants Chamber, Coulcil of the Imperial Indian Citizenship Asson., Provgincial Rural Development Board, Provincial Board of Supervision, Provincial Food and Commodities Advisory Board and of the Crops & Soil Wing of the Board of Agriculture, 1943 & 1945; Fellow of the Indian Institute of Bankers. Clubs: Orient, Willingdon, Cricket Club, Bombay. Address: Vasant Vihar, 85, Nepean Sea Road, Bombay."

(has his photo)

He appears in (many) other annual editions of this and other biographical sources.

I also have the award documents for both awards as well as his His City and Guilds of London, Department of Technology, silver prize medal for "Technological Innovation". It is named on the edge "RAMAMLAL GOKALDAS SARAIYA, SOAP MANUFACTURE. 1st PRIZE, 1921."

[Ed_Haynes]

Deputy Inspector-General of Police Mohmed Quadir Ali, I.P.S., Mysore

1- President's Police and Fire Services Medal for Distinguished Service "M. Quadir Ali, I.P.S., D.I.G. Mysore"

Not. No. 3-Pres./66 of 26 January 1966 (Gazette of India, 5 February 1966, p. 75):

"Shri Mohmed Quadir Ali, I.P.S.

"Deputy Inspector General of Police

"Central Range

"Bangalore, Mysore"

2- Police Medal for Meritorious Service, 1st variety "M. Quadir Ali, I.P.S., D.I.G. Police, Mysore"

Notficaton No. 5-Pres./59 of 26 January 1959 (Gazette of India, 31 January 1959, p. 52):

"Shri Mohamed Quadir Ali, .I.P.S., Deputy Inspector General of Polce, Southern Range, Mysore."

3- Police Independence Medal, 1950

[Ed_Haynes]

Only one of many groups acquired from the collection of Tony Wallace, a well-known US collector and student of South Asian awards. As Tony passed away two days back (complications of ALS) I present this group, somewhat randomly selected, as a memorial to Tony. A true gentleman.

1175 Havildar Nawaz, 127th Princess of Wales's Own Baluch Light Infantry

1- East and Central Africa Medal "LUBWA'S", "UGANDA 1897-98" - 1175 Pte: NAWAZ 27/BO: L: INF: - only 88 for this clasp combination

2- Africa General Service Medal, 1902-1956, Edward VII issue "SOMALILAND 1908-10" - 1175 HAVDr NAWAZ. 127 BALUCHI L.I.

[Hugh]

I wonder if you've ever run across medals to the Tata family. We used to work with his empire when i was travelling to India.

Hugh

[Ed_Haynes]

164 Sepoy Fazl Din, 33rd Punjab Infantry

1- Second Afghan War, 1878-80 - Sepoy Fazl Din 21st Regt N. I.

2- India General Service Medal, 1854-95 - WAZIRISTAN 1894-95 - 164 Sepoy Fazl Din 33d Bl Infy

3- India Medal, 1895-1902, Victoria - PUNJAB FRONTIER 1897-98 - 164 Sepoy Fazl Din 33d Pjb Infy

4- Indian Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal, Victoria 1888 issue - 164 Sepoy Fazl Din 33d Bl Infy

As a regiment, the 21st Bengal Infantry received no medals or clasps between 1869 and 1891, other than no clasp Afghanistan 1878 awards for service in the Kurram Field Force. From his name it is evident that Fazl Din was a Punjabi Muslim, and he would have transferred to the 33rd [Punjabi 'Mahomedan'] Regiment of Bengal Infantry in 1891. In accordance with orders received in January 1891, the 33rd Bengal Infantry was disbanded and then immediately re-raised with a substantially modified class structure- hence the transfer of Punjab Muslims from the 21st Bengal Infantry, including Fazl Din. The 33rd Bengal Infantry went on to serve with the Waziristan Field Force from November 1894 to March 1895 and then with the Tochi Field Force between June 1897 and March 1898, earning the 1854 and 1895 India General Service medals with appropriate clasps. It was not present in any other field operations until the Great War.

[Ed_Haynes]

I wonder if you've ever run across medals to the Tata family. We used to work with his empire when i was travelling to India.

Hugh

The medals that the company awards to their workers for long service are rather common.

Jehangir Ratanji Dadabhai Tata was awarded the Bharat Ratna in 1992, a unique award of the highest national honour to a capitalist.

[Ed_Haynes]

Another "ex-Wallace Collection" group.

2208 Sepoy Hardit Singh, 31st Bengal Infantry

1- Central Africa Medal - "2208 Sepoy Hardit Singh, 31st Bl Infy"

2- India Medal 1895 - PUNJAB FRONTIER 1897-98, MALAKAND 1897 - "2208 Sepoy Hardit Singh, 31st Bl Infy"

[Ed_Haynes]

1257 Farrier-Major William Vaz, 31st Lancers

An interesting partial group that raises many questions.

1- British War Medal - named "1257 FAR-MAJ. W. VAZ, 31 LRS.""

2- Indian Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal, Edward VII - named "1257 Sowar William Vaz, 31st D. of C.O. Lcrs"

[Ed_Haynes]

Colonel Daud Khan, Sardar Bahadur, Alwar Imperial Service Infantry (Commandant)

1- Order of British India, first class, type 1, 1839-1939

OBI 1 ? H&A, p. 23, for Egypt. IAL January 1919, 3:1968, shows date of admission to OBI 1 as 3 June 1916.

OBI 2 ? 1 January 1904?? (IAL, January 1919, 3:1967?)

2- China War Medal 1900 - Asst Comdt Daud Khan, Alwar I. S. Infy.

3- 1914-15 Star - unnamed (ribbon backward)

4- British War Medal - unnamed

5- Victory Medal - unnamed

6- Delhi Durbar 1911 - Col. Daod Khan Bahadur Commandant Alwar I. S. Infy.

Entered service 1 April 1885.

Appointed to the regiment 1 November 1888.

Colonel commandant 16 August 1909.

As so many medals are unnamed, there is concern about "restoration", but it came from a good source, close to the family. Who knows?

Edited September 5, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Ulsterman]

Stunning-just stunning.

I am sorry to hear about Tony.

[Hugh]

The medals that the company awards to their workers for long service are rather common.

Jehangir Ratanji Dadabhai Tata was awarded the Bharat Ratna in 1992, a unique award of the highest national honour to a capitalist.

Thanks for that, Ed. Medals from the company - that's different. Maybe the precedent from John Company gave them the idea.

Hugh

[Ed_Haynes]

Moving down the iceberg, a bit closer to the waterline (and trying not to stray into the submerged mass), let me add a few singles.

1- Deccan Medal, 1778-84 - Awarded by the East India Company as a sort of general service medal for various campaigns in western India. The first medal to be distributed widely to all ranks of the Indian army for more general campaign service ? as distinct from the narrow services of the Pondicherry capture or the meritorious behavior under difficult and special circumstances such as the Monghyr Mutiny ? was awarded for campaigns in west India and Gujarat, 1778-84, and in south India, against Mysore, 1780-84. These were in fact two completely separate campaigns, with the reward for service conjoined into a single medal. In January 1784, the governor-general approved a medal for award to all ranks of the Indian troops of the ?Bombay Detachment? who had served in Gujarat and northern Konkan. The medal was awarded to subadars as a 1.6-inch medal in gold, to jemadars in 1.6-inch silver, and to lower ranks in 1.25-inch silver (the one shown). The medal was to be worn around the neck by a cord of unspecified design. In addition to the award of the medal, Hindu recipients were, by order of the Governor-General, exempted from all fees for pilgrimages to Gaya. In January 1785, the award of the same medal in the same three metals was extended to the ?Carnatic Detachment?. While the same coin-like medal (including edge milling, as was common with the coins of the day) was awarded for two distinct actions, it bore the generalized Persian legend on the reverse: ?Presented by the Calcutta Government in memory of good service and intrepid valour, A.D. 1784, A.H. 1199? and ?Like this coin may it endure in the world, and the exertions of those lionhearted Englishmen of great name, victorious from Hindustan to the Deccan, become exalted.? The suggestion is unavoidable that this medal may have been intended to apply to more than one campaign, as it was used not only for actions in Bombay but in Madras, and was approved at the highest level of Company administration in India.

2 and 3- Seringapatam Medal, 1799 - Also awarded by the East India Company. As the campaigns against Tippu Sultan and Mysore State continued, not only did the nature of the British military and political presence in the Subcontinent alter, but also so did the scale on which this ongoing service was represented in medallic form. The capture of Tippu?s capital at Seringapatnam on 4 May 1799 became an iconic moment in the late-eighteenth-century history of the English in India and it was not, perhaps, surprising that this service would be commemorated in a new award and in a new kind of award. On 24 September 1799, the Court of Directors passed a resolution taking praiseful notice of the capture of Tippu?s fortress; on 13 November the General Court in London echoed these sentiments. While neither resolution made any mention of a medal to commemorate this service, in February 1801 medals were ordered to reward those present at the capture and to supplement their plunder from the sack of the city. The obverse of the medal bore a representation of the storming of the fortress and bore the Persian legend ?The Fort of Seringapatnam, the gift of God, the 4th May 1799?; the reverse showed a dramatic scene of the British lion attacking, mauling, and defeating the tiger of Tippu and the Qur?anic quotation ?The Lion of God is the Conqueror.? The 1.9-inch medal, as had been the case before, was awarded in a range of metals: gold (30 specimens), silver-gilt (185), silver (850), bronzed copper (4331), and tin (42,450). This increased metallic diversity represented a major change in the award conditions of the medal. For the first time, awards were extended beyond Indian troops in the service of the Company. The gold medals were bestowed on King, the Governor-General, Lord Cornwalis, rulers and ministers in ten prominent Indian States, the Commander-in Chief, the two general-rank officers serving on Cornwalis? staff, and a specimen went to the Oriental Museum. Silver-gilt medals went to members of council of the three presidencies, to British residents whose services were relevant to the actions in Mysore, and to British officers of field rank and to those serving on the general staff officers; the silver medals went to other British officers. Only the bronzed copper and tin medals were awarded to Indian troops, to, respectively, non-commissioned officers (presumably including Indian officers) and to enlisted personnel. While a subadar would previously have received a medal in gold, they now had to be content with a bronzed copper medal. The upper ranges of award were now reserved, for the first time, for European personnel, both those engaged in command positions and to those whose administrative positions apparently entitled them to some for on recognition. The medals awarded to those actually engaged in the military actions at Seringapatnam were restricted to those troops under Company authority, and British troops were ineligible. Even the awards to Indian troops were initially restricted to Madras Presidency troops. These medals were manufactured in England and shipped out to Madras for award. For troops from the Bengal army, awards were authorized only in 1800. These medals (of slightly smaller sized and of a modestly differing design) were manufactured in Calcutta in only gold and silver, with the normal scheme of award being followed, with gold medals (83 specimens) being awarded to subadars, while the silver medals (2786) were awarded to other ranks. This led to the fascinating situation where, in the King was awarded a gold medal from Madras while a Bengal subadar received the same award, a Madras English captain got a silver medal for his chest while a Bengali sepoy wore the same award around his neck. It was not until 1803 (for Madras awards, 1809 in Bengal) that the actual Seringapatnam medals were distributed and, from that time, their issuance raised issues of precedence and authority. There were also issues of wearing the awards. Indian troops, both in Madras and in Bengal, apparently wore the medals, as was common practice, from a cord around their neck. Yet, for the first time, a medal awarded by the East India Company had been awarded to significant numbers of Europeans. When they wore their medals suspension ribbons were added (as was becoming common practice for awards of the Army Gold Medals in England), though there was no uniformity as to what ribbon ought to be worn. Most recipients simply used the common red ribbon with blue edges as was used for medals being awarded for services against Napoleon?s armies; others ? such as the later the Duke of Wellington ? wore their medals from specially concocted ribbons of tawny yellow, representing, it is said, the tiger emblem of Tippu. The larger issue was one of the rightful authority of the East India Company to bestow any sort of honor was not addressed directly, and it was not until 1815 that royal permission was extended for European officers in the employment of the East India Company actually to wear their medals; similar permission to crown forces would not be extended until 1851 (when the India Medal 1799 was established). But permission either to receive or wear the medal was never extended to European enlisted personnel involved in the action. I show here the bronze and tin medals.

4- Egypt Medal, 1801 - Also awarded by the East India Company. The extended scope and need for military actions that the British campaigns against Napoleon represented had their echo in Indian service. In 1801, Indian troops were dispatched to Egypt to oppose the French presence there. After their return to India in 1802, medals were authorized for these Indian troops in the already familiar pattern: 16 gold medals for Indian officers and 760 silver medals for other ranks. Initial awards were made only to Bengal Presidency troops, but in 1812 the award was extended to Bombay troops and an additional 1439 silver medals were prepared for reward with no regard to rank. While this was, obviously, service outside of India, it was no longer to be rewarded with simple arm badges ? as had been done earlier for services in, for example, Amboyna ? but was now, in the ?post- Seringapatnam era? to be represented by medals. European officers with the Indian troops in Egypt were awarded in 1847 with the "Egypt" clasp to the retrospective Military General Service Medal. This is, obviously, the silver medal. Many restrikes exist, though this one seems original.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

5- Medal for the Capture of Rodrigues, Isle of Bourbon, and Isle of France, 1809-10 - Also an award of the East India Company. Earlier ideas about the proper reward for overseas service had, in the case of the Egyptian expedition, been broadened and medals had been awarded instead of the previous silver and brass arm badges. When India troops were dispatched in 1809 and 1810 to capture French-held islands of the Indian Ocean ? Rodrigues, Isle of Bourbon (Reunion), and Isle of France (Mauritius) ? it was perhaps to be expected that campaign medals in the new style would follow. While troops from all three Presidencies had participated, only Bengal troops were presented with the gold (45) and silver (2156) medals which were awarded along the now-established rank basis (subadars and jemadars gold,others silver). This is an original silver meda, though restrikes abound.

6- Java Medal, 1811 - Also an award of the East India Company. Likewise, Indian troops who participated in the seizure of the island of Java from the Dutch in 1811 were given gold (133) and silver (6519) medals. The Java campaign presents an interesting case study of the wider evolution of parallel systems of award. While Indian officers and enlisted personnel were awarded the medals discussed above, their European officers and the British troops involved in the actions would have to wait for the much later military and naval general service medals, clasp "Java". This is an interesting silver medal which has been remounted from the normal neck wear for (unofficial) wear from the normal "military ribbon" of the day. The most likely explanation is that the recipients has later ribboned medals and desired a uniform appearance.

7- Burma Medal, 1824-26 - Another award of the East India Company. Other frontier service in 1824-26 extended the sphere of British influence eastward into Burma. This was a major military expedition, involving troops from both Bengal and Madras, as well as English troops. In April 1826, the Governor-General instituted a medal to reward this service. Drawing heavily from the symbolic vocabulary of the Seringapatnam medal, the medal shows a scene of combat at the great pagoda in Rangoon on the obverse with the Persian legend ?The Standard of the Victorious Army of England upon Ava.? The reverse shows the Burmese elephant bowing down before a standing and rather self-satisfied English lion; the reverse also bears the explanatory caption in Persian, ?The elephant of Ava submits to the lion of England, year 1826.? The 1.5-inch medal was struck by Hamilton, the Calcutta jewler, with the usual rank-distinction in both gold (758) and silver (33,133). A special medal was also struck for one European, a Mr. Lindquist. While, in general, this award seems to follow accepted precedents, a major change was adopted in the method of wearing: The medal was to be worn from a ribbon on the left breast, rather than from a cord around the neck. It is fair to assume that this represents an adaptation from the practice introduced with the medal that had been issued for service in the Battle of Waterloo ten years before. At the suggestion of the Duke of Wellington, this medal had used the same ribbon (red with blue edges) that had been used on the Army Gold Medals (and, on occasion, with the Seringapatnam Medal). This, the emerging standard for an ?army ribbon? was also proposed for the Burma Medal. While there was some opposition to the ?Waterloo ribbon? being adopted for the Burma Medal, by 1831 it had been established as the standard for the novel wearing of this medal. There was also some confusion over whether the medal was to be worn from a length of ribbon around the neck or by a shorter ribbon on the left breast; it was only in November 1831 that the new method of wearing a medal was established. The medal was awarded to all Indian company forces that served in the campaign. As before, Europeans had been excluded, both those in Company service and those of crown regiments. Their rewards would have to await the establishment of the ?Ava? clasp to the India Medal 1799 in 1851.

There is, by the way, an interesting question regarding these early awards as to which side is the obverse and which is the reverse. I have followed standard practice (BB&M) in what I have shown here, though I do not think it is correct.

All of these early medals were, unfortunately, issued unnamed. While rolls exist in the archives in New Delhi and are of great historical interest they aren't of much use in matching with surviving medals. This practice would soon change.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[James Hoard]

I wonder if you've ever run across medals to the Tata family. We used to work with his empire when i was travelling to India.

Hugh

Sir Dorabji Jamsetji Tata was knighted (knight bachelor) in 1910 and his brother Sir Ratanji in 1916. The widow of the latter, Naja, Lady Tata, was also made a CBE in 1919 for her charity and war services and survived him for many years, well into the late 1950s. Sir Dorabji's wife, Mehrabai, Lady Tata, was also made a CBE but predeceased her husband. Both are buried at Brookwood Cemetary and having no chldren, left their fortunes to charitable causes and institutions.

There is a family tree at http://www.tatacentralarchives.com/Heritage/FamilyTree.Pdf

Cheers,

James

[Hugh]

Sir Dorabji Jamsetji Tata was knighted (knight bachelor) in 1910 and his brother Sir Ratanji in 1916. The widow of the latter, Naja, Lady Tata, was also made a CBE in 1919 for her charity and war services and survived him for many years, well into the late 1950s. Sir Dorabji's wife, Mehrabai, Lady Tata, was also made a CBE but predeceased her husband. Both are buried at Brookwood Cemetary and having no chldren, left their fortunes to charitable causes and institutions.

There is a family tree at http://www.tatacentralarchives.com/Heritage/FamilyTree.Pdf

Cheers,

James

Thanks for the input, James. I knew there had to be a few gongs in there somewhere. It's quite an impressive family.

Hugh

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks for the input, James. I knew there had to be a few gongs in there somewhere. It's quite an impressive family.

Hugh

Interesting enough.

I have no medals to the Tatas and have never cared to acquire any to their workers for long service.

[Hugh]

Interesting enough.

I have no medals to the Tatas and have never cared to acquire any to their workers for long service.

I agree. A worker's medal isn't quite the same as an MC or Vir Chakra.

Hugh

[Ed_Haynes]

I agree. A worker's medal isn't quite the same as an MC or Vir Chakra.

Hugh

Well, actually, it is (as interesting as a VrC, but maybe not a MC). Surely more interesting than medals to Europeans. Have you seen my Soviet collection? Workers usually matter more than soldiers to me.

The problem is that they often don't come with ribbon, and when they do the prices are too high. You don't want to encourage the dealers in bad habits, do you? Moreover, my feeling about the Tatas (though from Bikaner State) make me predisposed to pay lower prices than usual for medals linked in any way to them. (For those not knowing Indian capitalist families, Tata ~= Ford.)

Edited September 10, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[James Hoard]

Well, actually, it is (as interesting as a VrC, but maybe not a MC). Surely more interesting than medals to Europeans. Have you seen my Soviet collection? Workers usually matter more than soldiers to me.

The problem is that they often don't come with ribbon, and when they do the prices are too high. You don't want to encourage the dealers in bad habits, do you? Moreover, my feeling about the Tatas (though from Bikaner State) make me predisposed to pay lower prices than usual for medals linked in any way to them. (For those not knowing Indian capitalist families, Tata ~= Ford.)

The Tatas, like many of the great Bombay Parsi families, originate in Navsari, a town in Souh Gujarat that used to be in Gaekwar territory. However, the town had been a Parsi town for centuries, ever since the Zorastrians migrated to Gujarat from Persia. The architecture and planning features are typical to the community. Some of the oldest Zorastrian texts are to be found here. The Jejeebhoys, Naoraji and Gandhi (Feroze, Indira's husband) families all originate from the same town.

[Snoopy]

I must admit that I don't know much about Indian medals, so thank's for sharing these beautiful groups.

All the best

Snoopy

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks to those who have offered positive and relevant comments. It has been surprisingly difficult keeping this thread on track, but when I find the time and energy I shall be adding to this thread.