Baden Bar - 1870/1871

[Paul C]

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Edited September 4, 2008 by Paul C

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Thank you all for the help so far !

I must say that this does scare me in that way that it seems that these bars will become a real minefield iff you look at how the ribbons are attached, the stitching, etc..... I have the bar i my hand and with all due respect but besides the EK2 and oaks all other awards are original. The ribbons are also original, etc..... so someone did do a very good job in this (either period or yesterday so to speak)

Cordial greetings and thanks once again,

[saschaw]

[...] and with all due respect but besides the EK2 and oaks all other awards are original.

Did anyone doubt this? Don't think so...

The ribbons are also original, etc.....

Sure they are all? He's know for not only sewing complete new crap but "upgrading" old bars by adding some positions. Once I found a 7 place medal bar he made from a 5 place - by adding a China and S?dwestafrika medal, each with some clasps, and almost all bad. He is destroying good, old bars. Maybe here are some parts again taken from a pretty good old Baden 1870 bar - but not the complete bar. The backing as well as the copper sheet metal(!) do not look good at all.

so someone did do a very good job in this (either period or yesterday so to speak)

Neither period nor yesterday, but about three to four months ago. Without any doubt. I hope someone else comments on this as you don't seem to be sure yet.

[jaba1914]

The bar is now on ebay. Sale as an original.

link

Regards

Alex

Did anyone doubt this? Don't think so...

Sure they are all? He's know for not only sewing complete new crap but "upgrading" old bars by adding some positions. Once I found a 7 place medal bar he made from a 5 place - by adding a China and S?dwestafrika medal, each with some clasps, and almost all bad. He is destroying good, old bars. Maybe here are some parts again taken from a pretty good old Baden 1870 bar - but not the complete bar. The backing as well as the copper sheet metal(!) do not look good at all.

Neither period nor yesterday, but about three to four months ago. Without any doubt. I hope someone else comments on this as you don't seem to be sure yet.

[Josef Rietveld]

Not very gentlemanlike, as old-hand in the collecting area he should accept his mis-purchases and resell the fake with correct description. Unfortunately such behaviour happens permanently in the collecting world. IMHO the reseller shows that he isn't any better than the one who sold the fake for the first time.

josef

[Steve K.]

Not very gentlemanlike, as old-hand in the collecting area he should accept his mis-purchases and resell the fake with correct description. Unfortunately such behaviour happens permanently in the collecting world. IMHO the reseller shows that he isn't any better than the one who sold the fake for the first time.

josef

I agree!!

[Ulsterman]

Coventry!

[Stijn David]

Hello,

I understand perfectly what everyone is so frustrated about. I have posted the bar and the opinions are not good about it, the EK 2 and oaks are not good (read= fake) it seems + the bar is probably put togheter recently.

Besides the EK2 and the 25 years oaks the other pieces (read medals) are original. The combination is not old cfr. what more qualifyed persons as me are saying.

Might i ask the readers for opinions what should be done in such cases? Take the bar apart and sell the originals that are on the bar (Centenarmedal, KDM + Bar, Felddienstehrenzeichen, Erinnerungsmedaille), destroyt the complete bar, etc.... or sell it as it is with correct discription? etc.... I have chosen another way = namely post it first and then add remarks as to warn collectors.

Please feel free to add your opinion.

Yes, i made a large mistake in obtaining this bar and not inform me better.

Now towards the controverse, the bar is posted on ebay now and i have posted 3 updates in the description:

The last is a very important one, as i have posted that the bar is fraud and that everyone should first inform himself (likee on this forum) before he does obtain such a piece. The bar will go on untill the auction has ended. It will NOT be sold and is meant to be informative for new collectors. In a next update i will post links towards this forum and another very good one

What does strike me is how fast reactions does come in forums like this one, well that is fine offcoarse.

Iff the board wishes that i should be suspended for this as i do work incorrect, then that is fine for me and i take peace in that decission.

I can only thank all of you for the help you have given in the past and i am looking forward to whatever will hapen.

Cordial greetings

Edited September 20, 2008 by Stijn David

[Stijn David]

Hello,

My action has ended already it seems. As Ebay has suspended this auction already for the reason it is forbidden to post links.

Well i will do it again, namely post that bar and then after a few days say it is non original for reason so and so.

Are you guys still angry now at me?

Cordial greetings,

ps: still interested however what one should do with such a piece?

[HeikoGrusdat]

sorry but from what I can see on the picture the strassburg clasp is a new one too .............

[Wild Card]

ps: still interested however what one should do with such a piece?

Since you ask... I will offer two situations that apply to me.

First. Only a couple of years ago, I bought a medal bar which turned out to be a real dog. I bought it at a show from a fellow that I do not know and will likely (and hopefully) never see again; so I have resigned myself to the fact that there is no chance of returning it and getting my money back. This bar is quite decorative, so I have it nicely mounted in a frame and hung on the wall.

Second. Over the years, I have purposely purchased a few copies of pieces to fill holes in my collection. I have since sold two such pieces at shows; and, in doing so, made it clear to the purchasers that these pieces were copies. Both understood and accepted this situation.

This is how I handle this situation; but I have to carry this one step further. I have a ?database? of the pieces in my collection on my computer. With regard to any piece that I know or suspect to be a copy, I have this information so recorded; so that when these pieces are sold, there are no unpleasant surprises. Few collectors, even some of the best and brightest, have not picked up a clunker or two along the way. I call it ?tuition? - the price we pay for our education.

I hope that this information is helpful; and if I ay say so, welcome to the club; a club which has many members who do not know, or will not accept the fact, that they are qualified for membership. :cheers: