Amazing ZEPPELIN plate

[Luftmensch]

Saw this amazing item on eBay...

Only ?1,650.00 "Buy it Now." Check it out before someone hits the button...

UNIQUE BERLIN HEINRICH MATHY ZEPPELIN PLATE 1917..RARE! on eBay, also Ceramics Pottery, World War I 1914-1918, Militaria, Collectables (end time 19-Sep-08 00:16:14 BST)

It is fabulous work, especially where the artist could not resist depicting a Zeppelin badge on a plate dated 1917.

It reminds me of a Zeppelin crewmembers "souvenir" that also came out of the UK. It looked like it was done by the same hand and also had a lurid drawing, this time of a Zeppelin being shot down in flames by a fighter. Not the sort of image I would want to remind me of my happy time in the service.

Sadly the dealer defends his piece saying he bought it at Sotheby's and that the auction house has provenenace and stands by it. Sotheby's also added that there are "experts" on the internet who blow enough hot air to keep a squadron of zeppelins aloft! I don't blame the dealer, really, he appears to be primarily a stamp dealer, and is out of his area of expertise. He also has listed a right U-boat plate, and anyone can see it has a sober period graphic. The zeppelin plate's imagery was probably conceived in the last 20 years.

Also watch out for very creative trench art coming out of the UK.

Rgds

John

Edited September 4, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Deruelle]

What a beauty ? Do you have one in your collection ?

Christophe

[jaba1914]

John, this is a great stuff. Realy nice. It would mach in your collection.

Regards

Alex

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Luftmensch

So its a very creative modern piece from circa the 1980's - 1990's ?

a bit like all those commemorative RAF ones that came out a few years ago.

Kevin in Deva :beer:

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: Can't wait for the 1913 Iron Cross commemorative. :speechless:

[Luftmensch]

Fair's fair and I must grant equal time...

Dear aerowallah,

There must sadly always be those who attempt to discredit items ... with so many reasons that I would simply not have time to go into them all.

I have spoken with various experts during the course of the afternoon and all that has been achieved is that we now have a serious offer off ebay from a museum. Everyone has been most helpful and interested and two discussions have indicated that the plates were painted on blanks and therefore there may be several years difference in the date to the reverse and front of the plate as these would have taken considerable time to execute with such fine and precise work.

I am awaiting a further comment concerning the badge and its issue and use from a world leading expert.

The plates are what they are and there is absolutely no record of these having ever been reproduced. In actual fact the 12 plates of which three apparently are lost or broken are entirely unique.

From our extensive experience we have generally found that unique items tend to create the biggest stir among collectors and often also achieve incredible prices as a result.

Enjoy the listing while it is up ... I ought however to advise that reproducing our images is a breach of international copyright where permission is not gained beforehand.

Regards

Frankmck41

[Luftmensch]

Ooops, another one...It would seem the free advertising has done its job, and he doesn't want to show off...

I'll let the moderators decide the legal question...

Dear aerowallah,

I think the embarrassment is going to be all yours!

While I don't mind you openly discussing the plate in any of your forums I must ask that you immediately remove the photographs which have been used without permission. I will check later to ensure that this has been done.

Regards

Frankmck

[Chip]

Perhaps that badge was just added later to update the plate? Oh, it's under the glazing, well, never mind.

Chip

[Luftmensch]

Right you are. There is also room at 10 and 2 o'clock for a foo fighter and maybe a V-2 rocket...

[Luftmensch]

Goodbye, chaps! I expect the SAS to take me away in the night....

I have just read your comment ? remove it immediately!!!

I am not a stamp dealer and if you cared to read my listings you might just have grasped that! Incidentally the plate was acquired in 1973 from Sothebys and as a long standing and well established international art and antique dealer with publications to my name I am far from being out of my area of expertise. It is you who is simply flailing in the wind ? just because you cannot afford the plate ? I thought I had met all the crackpots on ebay but you certainly take the biscuit.

The matter will be documented and forwarded to ebay in the morning and referred for copyright breach and defamation if the comment and photographs are not removed. We have already made copies of the offending material and emailed this to our lawyers for their comment.

I suggest you act quickly

Frankmck41

[Luftmensch]

The sites on which you have posted the defamatory comment and photographs has been notified accordingly:

While I always welcome sites established for the interests of hobbyists and enthusiasts however sadly they always seem to end up being abused.

I am making a formal complaint regarding your member Aerowallah whom I believe is named Mr John M Bell. Mr bell entered into communication with me earlier today regarding an item which I had posted for sale on ebay. As an accredited art and antique specialist since the early 1970's I have a very long and successful track record with books published, television appearances and am a consultant to many dealers, auction houses and private collections worldwide. Mr Bell is at grievance with a date line suggested in my listing as 1917 which he believes is 1919. Consequently I have received emails suggesting all manner of spurious and unsupported allegation. In the meantime, and without permission he has taken photographs without permission and posted them to your site. He has also done the same with partial email responses and has added derogatory opinion concerning my standing. Basically he has commited copyright fraud in respect of the images and his comments are defamatory. Allowing this behaviour sadly implicates the site owner and while I have no present grievance I am advising that I have asked Mr Bell to remove these items from the site within the next hour. I trust you will ensure that he complies with this request and I appreciate your intervention.

Ebay will be contacted by our lawyers in the morning.

Frankmc41

[Luftmensch]

John

Herewith the rules to the Gentleman?s Military Interest Club

Please read carefully as you are in breach of their terms and rules!!!

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Frankmc41

As it's after midnight his time, I don't want him to lose any more sleep. I will remove the photos but keep the ebay link.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...E:X:RTQ:GB:1123

If the link is for whatever reason is in violation, you can look up the item number yourself...

UNIQUE BERLIN HEINRICH MATHY ZEPPELIN PLATE 1917..RARE!

EXCEPTIONAL HAND PAINTED L31 ZEPPELIN COMMEM. PLATE! Item number: 170252990008

And if someone--after this item drops off--is curious about what this looks like and wishes to be forewarned they can email me for pictures which I will keep on file.

Rgds

John

Edited September 4, 2008 by Luftmensch

[Luftmensch]

More opinion ? defamation and libel fall outside of the freedom of speech ? especially when it is printed for all to see!!!

I have obtained your address in Maine and will pursue this legally in the morning. Assuming ofcourse that the offending comment and material remains on the sites. If not I will assume you have appreciated the seriousness of your actions and taken the appropriate steps to rectify this.

Regards

Frankmck41

[Chip]

Wow! I have seen so many Ebay items discussed on so many forums and have never witnessed such a reaction. With all the threats and intimidations, one would have to to guess that where there is smoke there is fire. :unsure:

[Guest Rick Research]

Closed. Always happy to oblige hysterical sellers "hiding" their globally displayed eBay wares under rocks while shrieking "lawyers!!!!" Makes an excellent impression, that always does.

Readers may judge for themselves sales technique, public relations, and... personal expertise.

For those not wishing to distract the World Court at Den Haag from their former Yugoslavia war crimes backlog, as well as spare the additional expense incurred by the affable seller in locating and paying for a Supremely Unnamed Expert or corroborating Experts able to find information readily available to anyone able to read German in the last 8 decades--

the airship badges were created by decree of the Reichswehr Minister on 1 August 1920-- a simple fact which has been public knowledge since, uh, 1920. I'm sure that MANY Happy Billable Hours can be wasted spent consulting moldy issues of the Reichsgesetzbl?tter, but the fact remains that Mere Mortals already DO know this.

No charge for this expertise.

And Merry Christmas too. Yeesh.

[Paul R]

I thought that photos posted on Ebay were public domain.