Colonial medal Bar

[Claudio]

Dear forumites,

I'd like to introduce to you one of my latest purchases and would appreciate to hear your comment on it, especially on the "Gefechtsspangen" (compaign bars) of the DSWA-medal and on the Allg. EZ (strangely gilted and the reverse "Verdienst um den Staat" worn on the front).

? Preussen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse, 1914 (OEK 1909)

? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer (OEK 3803), Herst. JK (Juncker Berlin?)

? Preussen, Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen in Bronze, 1912-1918, R?ckseite ?WR? (OEK 1843), vg

? Deutsches Reich 1871-1918, S?dwestafrika-Denkm?nze f?r K?mpfer (OEK 3165) vg, mit Gefechtsspangen ?Hereroland? und ?Gross-Namaland? (OEK 3167 und 3172)

? Preussen, DA 2. Modell, 1913-1920, 1. Klasse f?r den Soldatenstand nach 15 Dienstjahre, Kreuz (OEK1974) Ku vg

? ?sterreich 1. Republik, 1. Weltkriegs-Erinnerungsmedaille

? Ungarn, 1. Weltkriegs-Erinnerungsmedaille am K?mpferband

Ciao,

Claudio

Edited November 15, 2008 by Claudio

[Claudio]

Detail of the Gefechtsspangen:

[Claudio]

Always show the back... it could be KM (dark blue almost black):

[Ulsterman]

Well, it all looks good to me, except maybe the spangen.

Those are key are they not?

These I do not know about; hopefully others can spot the modern copies.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Ulsterman

[Claudio]

Are you just guessing (on the clasps) or is it an educated judgement based on some founded visual evidences? That's what I like to know...

The clasps are very tightly fixed to the bar and don't want to ruin or destroy the bar in order to try how the clasps and theirs hooks look alike.

Ciao,

Claudio

[HeikoGrusdat]

Claudio, this is a type of battle clasps I can`t say 100% by photos......... when we meet some day and I can see them real it is no problem, but there is a 50-50 chance when you don`t have a perfect photo of the clasps.... other types of clasps are easier to ID by photos , but this type has been faked some years ago very often.... of course there are a lot of low quality fakes around but some of the better ones come close to the originals..... sorry, but from this photo I don`t want to make a 100% statement.

But........

the whole bar looks good, if you say the clasps look like they have been on this bar for 70 years now - everything should be ok..... can you lift up the clasps 1mm to see if the ribbon looks like it was covered by the clasps for many years?

[Claudio]

Hi Heiko,

Thanks for your comments... I noticed that the clasp Gross-Namaland looks quite the same like the one I have on this other medal bar; the third and especially the forth letter from the left (OS) looks to be placed not quite on the same line but rather a bit lower. The pattern of the lettering and the background of this clasp look all quite alike... the fire-gilt polishing on the higher surfaces it's still present, but not so much, maybe because it has been expose a bit more than the other bar to light and climatic agents.

I could almost say with 95% certainity that the Gross-Namaland clasp might look good. For the other clasp "Hereroland" I unfortunately can't compare with anything I have in my collection or I personally have seen and touched. Furthermore this bar is even more tightly fixed to the bar. Actually both clasps seem to be very well fixed to the bar, not like put in place in a second moment. But it's hard to tell...

Thanks anyway for your opinion... I hope that one day we could personally meet so that I can show you it personally... or maybe I have to hope in a sunny day, in order to take some better pictures with a natural and neutral light.

Ciao,

Claudio

Edited November 14, 2008 by Claudio

[saschaw]

The whole bar seems to be fine so the chance the clasps are good is good. The gilt "Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen in Bronze" is really odd, by the way any on a medal bar is odd as they are not often seen. I can recall one - on a navy bar, if that is of interrest. I'm not sure if it is worn with the reverse to the front here. The "VERDIENST UM DEN STAAT" is the actually averse for the silver medal and I would not be surprised if it is the averse for the bronce medal as well. One more point: the last medal is not from "Bulgarien" but from "Ungarn".

I noticed that the clasp Gross-Namaland looks quite the same like the one I have on this other medal bar

Argh, now that looks like a part of my very favorite colonial medal bar...

:rolleyes:

[Claudio]

@ Sascha: of course... it's a Ungarian WWI commemorative medal... I was to busy checking the other medals...

I'm posting the other medal bar... just for Sascha...

Yeah... that Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen bronce gilted... very strange... when I bid on it, the picture on Kube's catalogue, like the ones 20 years, was only black and wait... That's the positive for your German collectors, you can go to auctions and inspect personally such bars. I can't fly every time there's an auction to see such details, which are by the way for the advanced enthusiast in German Imperial medal quite important...

Ciao,

Claudio

[Guest Rick Research]

All I have for comparison is my Bavarian jewel:

The Spangen are actually flexed to fit against the bulging curves of the ribbon

[Claudio]

Thanks Rick! Maybe your original medal bar's owner were buddies and knew eachother...

Here's a better pic of the clasps. As you can see the clasp "Hereroland" has slightly been damaged on the surface.

Ciao,

Claudio

[Claudio]

For comparison a zoomed clasps' picture of the other bar.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Claudio

[Stogieman]

So.... how come nobody has picked up on the BRONZE Allgemeine=Ehrenzeichen? How often do you see one of those? How often have you seen one actually mounted????? !!!!!

[Guest Rick Research]

Because I'm still puzzling that one out. The GILDING makes it even weirder.

My understanding of the Bronze GenDec Medals was that they went to factory workers and that sort of civilian, so this is a FIRST for me, too... and once again, how dearly I would like to see a group like this still with the original award documents!

Don't know what to think-- this is the ONLY such I've ever seen in what was clearly a career military NCO's group.

Unfortunately for us, the Prussian Orders Lists stopped with publication of awards as of January 1913. man oh man, would I have liked to see 1913-14 (since this medal was created so late) for military recipients. It alone should be enough to identify this man!

[saschaw]

I'm posting the other medal bar... just for Sascha...

Thank you. If you're ever getting tired of it...

Because I'm still puzzling that one out. The GILDING makes it even weirder.

I just realized: with this "Ring?se", it may even be a Spangenst?ck which makes it at least a bit less weirder.

Don't know what to think-- this is the ONLY such I've ever seen in what was clearly a career military NCO's group.

I found this bar about a half year ago on a German forum and initially though "Navy!". Later, the whole paper group came up on eBay and indeed, it was a Navy guy from W?rttemberg. Bar and documents are most likely apart, and me fool did not even notice the wearer's name - but still have the bar's picture and know: NAVY!

:speechless:

[scottplen]

heres a bar i found for sale a few months ago but passed up ! but keeped pic on computer!

i never saw 1912 bronze Gen. honor medal mounted before!