WW1 & WW2 MEDALBAR

[CHRIS W]

I have a mounted bar consisting of War Medal, Victory Medal, and WW2 Defence Medal. The WW1 medals are rim marked 142970 SPR. M. BIRCH R.E. Am I correct that R.E. is Royal Engineers and what is SPR. Thanks

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, Royal Engineers. Rank is Sapper, the RE equivalent of a Private.

He obviously was recalled for WWII service, almost certainly as Home Guards with the Defence Medal. Those records are just now coming available at the archives.

Much information is available online. Others will probably beat me to it.

[Riley1965]

I have a mounted bar consisting of War Medal, Victory Medal, and WW2 Defence Medal. The WW1 medals are rim marked 142970 SPR. M. BIRCH R.E. Am I correct that R.E. is Royal Engineers and what is SPR. Thanks

It would be nice to see your mounted medal group.

Doc

[Ed_Haynes]

His MIC shows little, but lets us know (as we pretty much knew) that these are his complete medals for the Great War. And, more importantly, that his name was Malcolm.

[image deleted. God save the Queen.]

Edited December 5, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Mike Huxley]

Ed, While I understand how useful it is to post copies of the Medal Cards that are available from Ancestry.co.uk, may I remind you of their conditions. By showing complete copies of both sides of the medal card I believe you are infringing their rules and could leave the forum open to legal action. This has been mentioned on the BMF and it is advised to only show the front of the card.

Here is Ancestry's terms.

Limited Use LICENCE

You are licensed to use the Content only for personal or professional family history research, and may download Content only as search results relevant to that research. The download of the whole or material parts of any work or database is prohibited. Resale of a work or database or portion thereof, except as specific results relevant to specific research for an individual, is prohibited. Online or other republication of Content is prohibited except as unique data elements that are part of a unique family history or genealogy. Violation of this limited use licence may result in immediate termination of your membership and may result in legal action against you. You may use the software provided on the Service only while online and may not download, copy, reuse or distribute that software, except where it is clearly stated in connection with software that it is made available for offline use, and a licence for such use is provided in connection with that software.

Cheers,

Mike

Edited December 5, 2008 by Mike Huxley

[Ed_Haynes]

As the management is British, they may delete it if they wish. I am not a Crown subject.

I leave it up to them.

The whole assertion of "Crown Copyright" over archives is complex and, in any case, one does not wish to get the forum in trouble. Nick??

[Mike Huxley]

As the management is British, they may delete it if they wish. I am not a Crown subject.

I leave it up to them.

The whole assertion of "Crown Copyright" over archives is complex and, in any case, one does not wish to get the forum in trouble. Nick??

Ed, A typical gung-ho reply from you. As a person that is supposed to protect the interests of the forum I would have thought you would have taken the appropriate action yourself and cropped the view to just the front of the card.

I was trying to assist the Forum from falling foul of legal action.

But who am I ?

Mike

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed, A typical gung-ho reply from you. As a person that is supposed to protect the interests of the forum I would have thought you would have taken the appropriate action yourself and cropped the view to just the front of the card.

I was trying to assist the Forum from falling foul of legal action.

But who am I ?

Mike

Fair enough. I had wanted the forum management to decide on their legal liability. Neithe I (not you) can make that decision. It makes me sorry I tried to help

Image deleted.

[Mike Huxley]

Thank you Ed, better to be safe than sorry. I have passed this on to Leigh to discuss with the others. However it would seem that only posting a cropped view of the front of the card if it is related to an enquiry would be OK as Ancestry.co.uk are the only ones to publish both side in one view. Of course, there is no problem with you sending a full copy by email to the enquirer.

Regards,

Mike

Edited December 5, 2008 by Mike Huxley

[Ed_Haynes]

Thank you Ed, better to be safe than sorry. I have passed this on to Leigh to discuss with the others. However it would seem that only posting a cropped view of the front of the card if it is related to an enquiry would be OK as Ancestry.co.uk are the only ones to publish both side in one view.

Regards,

Mike

No, the main (US-based) ancestry site also makes it available. The assertion of such restrictive copyright over public archives is an interesting and even quaint issue. I have been helping the Indian Council on Historical Records raise this, as "Crown Copyright" is asserted over records in London, but if you consult the same identical records in New Delhi, what possible rights does HM retain?!

I was merely trying to help the original poster. I would have preferred a ruling by the forum management, but . . . .

[Mike Huxley]

I give up :banger:

[censlenov]

The fact that he has a defence medal doesn't necesarily mean he was recalled to active service with the home guard he could have been a member of the ARP or one of many other organization which qualified for "just" the defence medal

[Ed_Haynes]

The fact that he has a defence medal doesn't necesarily mean he was recalled to active service with the home guard he could have been a member of the ARP or one of many other organization which qualified for "just" the defence medal

True. Good point. I gather many of these records are graduuuuaaaaallllllyyyyyy being released. Maybe someday we'll know.

[Riley1965]

I give up

I think that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill

Doc

[CHRIS W]

Ed thanks for the help and info. I got camera batteries so here's the bar, Regards Chris

[CHRIS W]

reverse

[Ed_Haynes]

I think that you are making a mountain out of a mole hill

Doc

There is baggage, Doc. Much baggage.

[censlenov]

Nice simple group thats got a story behind it if one knows where to look. Start with ancestry and the NA for ww1 if you kind find an obituary online you may be able to gain some clues as to what he did in ww2.

Cheers

Chris

[leigh kitchen]

As Ed posted, the MIC gives the additional first name of Malcolm, apart from the Medal Roll reference of RE/101B7716418 for the BWM & Victory & an unusual little entry of 13/11/51 nothing else.

Buck passed to the Chairman re Ancestry copyright.

[Michael Johnson]

This is probably him: http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/districts.pl...=bmd_1228212042

There is also an Edward Malcolm born in 1890

[leigh kitchen]

I forgot to mention that I did'nt find a likely match n Service Records / Pension Records.

I see "Soldiers Died" is now on Ancestry

[CHRIS W]

Thanks for the addition information guys. What happened to him in 1951? Thanks Chris

[Nick]

Guys

I will look into this issue and see what the exact pitfalls may be.

[Ed_Haynes]

Guys

I will look into this issue and see what the exact pitfalls may be.

Please let us know, Nick. No desire to get GMIC into trouble, but much desire to help and answer queries. The complex legal issues of real and asserted international copyright in an internet age just haven't matured. But as you (and the board) are in the UK . . . ???