Kurt, Graf von Haugwitz

[joerookery]

Meet Kurt, Graf von Haugwitz, what can anybody tell me about him? These pictures, I believe were taken in 1914. His birthday was 1895. I think.

[ccj]

Wow,

Beautiful Photos. This guy made sure he got photographed in various uniforms didn't he? I don't blame him...

[Mike Dwyer]

He's listed in the 1914 Rangliste as a Leutnant in Garde-Kűrassier-Regiment, since he's the very last one listed, with a date of rank of 23.12.13 Oo, I'm guessing he's the most junior leutnant in the regiment.

[Chip]

So only the last photo could have been taken in 1914, as he is an enlisted man in the first two. Could you imagine what these photos would have looked like if they had been in color! Still extremely nice.

[W McSwiggan]

So only the last photo could have been taken in 1914, as he is an enlisted man in the first two. Could you imagine what these photos would have looked like if they had been in color! Still extremely nice.

He may have been enlisted but those uniforms are a tad nicer than issue to my eye...

In any other regiment, he'd have been the envy of everyone including the officers!

Edited December 22, 2008 by W McSwiggan

[joerookery]

Thank you very much. That was perfectly useful information. There are other pictures, and I will post more soon. What I am trying to track is how this guy got his commission. Clearly, he went through several ranks, did he go to the Academy? If only there were dates on the different pictures!

[Glenn J]

Joe, Mike,

he is not the Garde-K?rassier Graf v. Haugwitz. Kurt Graf v. Haugwitz-Hardenberg-Reventlow was commisioned into the Garde du Corps on 24.6.14. Note the GdC gorget. He was finished the war still as a Leutnant and was still alive as at 1 October 1928. I am in th UK at the moment and separated from much of my Prussian stuff but I believe the count was a former Fahnenjunker and not a cadet.

Regards

Glenn

[Mike Dwyer]

Sorry, Joe, for misleading you. I'm afraid I had no idea that was a GdC gorget, I wouldn't know one gorget from another. There's no Graf von Haugwitz listed in the GdC in the 1915 Rangliste, just the guy I mentioned. :speechless:

[joerookery]

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1344304/bio

[Glenn J]

Mike,

Graf v. Haugwitz only entered the GdC at the outbreak of war as a Fahnenjunker and consequently was not listed in the last peacetime army list of May 1914. He was in fact commissioned as a Leutnant ohne Patent on 21.2.15 later receiving seniority effective 24.6.14. It appears from the regimental history that he served throughout the war with the regiment although being detached temporarily for service as a Divisional Orderly Officer in 1918.

Regards

Glenn

[joerookery]

Glenn that is fantastic information! Do you have any data of where he came from? I know the family was from Silesia.

His father was Georg Erdmann Karl Ferdinand. Do you have any information on the medals of these two?

[joerookery]

Glenn,

Please talk me through ohne Patent . I understand that seniority was adjusted for several reasons. Actually many reasons. However, how would he be commissioned without the patent? :unsure:

[Naxos]

Is this the same guy?

Kurt Graf von Haugwitz-Hardenberg-Reventlow

* 28.09.1895 + USA 08.1969

according to the Spiegel article he did serve in the Garde K?rassier Regiment

DER SPIEGEL 12/1957 from 20.03.1957, page 64

http://wissen.spiegel.de/wissen/dokument/d...amp;top=SPIEGEL

Edited December 22, 2008 by Naxos

[joerookery]

yes that is the same guy! The last picture is of his father.

[Mike Dwyer]

Mike,

Graf v. Haugwitz only entered the GdC at the outbreak of war as a Fahnenjunker and consequently was not listed in the last peacetime army list of May 1914. He was in fact commissioned as a Leutnant ohne Patent on 21.2.15 later receiving seniority effective 24.6.14. It appears from the regimental history that he served throughout the war with the regiment although being detached temporarily for service as a Divisional Orderly Officer in 1918.

Regards

Glenn

Thanks, Glenn. I imagined he came on the scene after the rank list was published. I wonder if that was an older brother who was in the GK regiment?

[Naxos]

yes that is the same guy! The last picture is of his father.

Your Garde Leutnant was the second husband (out of seven) of Barbara Hutton, the heiress of Woolworth.

She left him for Cary Grant!

1st 1933 Alexis Mdivani, div.1935.

2nd Count Kurt von Haugwitz Hardenberg Reventlow, div.1938.

3rd JUL 8 1942 Cary Grant, Actor, div.AUG 30 1945.

4th 1947 Prince Igor Troubetzkoy, div.1947.

5th DEC 30 1953 Porfirio Rubirosa, div.1954.

6th 1955 Baron Gottfried von Cramm, div 1959.

7th 1964 Prince Doan Vinh de Champacak of Vietnam, div.1966.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Naxos

[Glenn J]

Glenn,

Please talk me through ohne Patent . I understand that seniority was adjusted for several reasons. Actually many reasons. However, how would he be commissioned without the patent? :unsure:

Joe,

the vast majority of the newly commissioned officers in WW1 were promoted "provisionally without a Patent". I assume (as I have not come across any regulations describing the mechanics of the practice) that this was done in order to take into consideration the abbreviated training period of these officers as opposed to the lengthier peacetime training of their more senior prewar colleagues.

I am expecting a delivery of my "Gothas" in the next couple of days and I can hopefully look up the Count's origins.

Naxos,

I am at a bit of a disadvantage at the moment as I am separated from the major part of my reference library. According to the wartime regimental history, Kurt Graf v. Haugwitz was a Garde du Corps officer. As Mike mentions in an earlier post there was a Garde-K?rassier Graf v. Haugwitz who already held a prewar commission. I tend to think that the Spiegel article may be confusing the two. In any case the photograph which Joe has attached shows a GdC Leutnant.

Hopefully the Gotha Gr?fliche Taschenb?cher can shed some more light on the subject.

Regards

Glenn

[Komtur]

According to the wartime regimental history, Kurt Graf v. Haugwitz was a Garde du Corps officer. As Mike mentions in an earlier post there was a Garde-K?rassier Graf v. Haugwitz who already held a prewar commission. I tend to think that the Spiegel article may be confusing the two. In any case the photograph which Joe has attached shows a GdC Leutnant.

Hopefully the Gotha Gr?fliche Taschenb?cher can shed some more light on the subject.

Regards

Glenn

Hi Glenn,

I think the Spiegel is not confusing the two, because they wrote "dem fr?heren preu?ischen Garde-K?rassier-Leutnant Kurt Graf von Haugwitz-Hardenberg-Reventlow". Generally the Gardes du Corps is a prussian K?rassier-Regiment, so a Leutnant in this regiment could be called "Garde-K?rassier-Leutnant" as the Spiegel did.

Best regards, Komtur.

Here the Haugwitz family with the two Curts in the "Gr?flicher Gotha 1917":

[Glenn J]

Hi Komtur,

good point and thank you for confirming the Garde-K?rassier Graf Haugwitz's first name(s). I had been looking for that information for a while!

Regards

Glenn

[joerookery]

Well I am confused -- what else is new!

The gentleman in the first picture is identified, and there is no problem. The gentleman in the last picture is allegedly Kurt's father who was allegedly in the Garde-K?rassier Regiment. The uniform he is wearing in the picture does not support that thought , but rather that he is part of some other K?rassier regiment. Allegedly this guy's name was Georg Erdmann Karl Ferdinand. Who is who? Here is another picture of the older gentleman thought to be Georg Erdmann Karl Ferdinand.

[Glenn J]

Joe,

Kurt's father was Georg Erdmann Karl Ferdinand Graf v. Haugwitz, born Carolath 8 August 1848, died Hardenberg 12 Sep 1897. Listed as an Oberleutnant (Premier-Lieutenant) a.D. in the 1914 Gr?fliches Taschenbuch. He was awarded his EK2 as a Sekonde-Lieutenant in the Leib-K?rassier-Regiment (Schles.) Nr. 1.

Regards

Glenn

[Glenn J]

Joe,

further to that last post it would appear that he in fact retired as an Oberstleutnant. The 1914 list it seems erroneously listed him as an Oberleutnant a.D. He is shown as an Oberstleutnant in the 1942 list. He is shown in the regimental history of K?rassier-Rgiment Nr. 6 as having served in that regiment from 23 October 1877 until 10 June 1884 when he was transfered to K?rassier-Regiment Nr. 5 as a Rittmeister.

Regards

Glenn

[joerookery]

Glenn,

I really appreciate this. I am actually in contact with the son of Kurt and I am trying to de-conflict some of the information that he has. I am a bit confused about your last two posts however. If the gentleman died Hardenberg 12 Sep 1897--how did he continue to get promoted? Am I being thick?

[Glenn J]

Glenn,

I really appreciate this. I am actually in contact with the son of Kurt and I am trying to de-conflict some of the information that he has. I am a bit confused about your last two posts however. If the gentleman died Hardenberg 12 Sep 1897--how did he continue to get promoted? Am I being thick?

Joe,

we know he was a Rittmeister in 1884 which would certainly have given him time to achieve the rank of Major and then Oberstleutnant or char. Oberstleutnant before retiring sometime before his death in 1897. Until I am reunited with my stuff, the details are a bit sketchy!

Regards

Glenn

[joerookery]

Am I being thick?

I think I qualify! Certainly not being dyslexic about dates helps! Okay just to clarify there are three people. Kurt of the Garde du Corps regiment, his father of a K?rassier regiment, and Kurt - Ludwig from the Garde-K?rassier regiment. Whose relationship was???