China The exact Order/ribbon type of Brilliant Star awarded to a British

[lilo]

Hi All,

researching the medal entitlement of the British Field Marshal Philip Walhouse (Chetwode), 1st Baron Chetwode, (1869-1950), I discovered that He was awarded the :

China, Order of the Brilliant Star, Grand Cordon.

This Order was gazetted (i.e. put on the London Gazette) on 5th MARCH, 1948.

I have further researched this Order to try to understand the exact type awarded to Chetwode and which is/are the exact colour/s of the ribbon but I have found anything.

Can anyone please supply with a colour photo with the exact version that Chetwode should have received and showing also the colour/s of the ribbon ?

Many Thanks in advance

Best Regards

Lilo

Edited January 12, 2009 by lilo

[Christian L]

As nobody posted up to now - i'll try my best (without having my books with me) i have a picture of a miniature bar with the mentioned order on.

And as far as i remember, its also the kind of ribbon i have seen on the other examplese of the Order.

Christian

PS: just a Grandofficer, no Grandcross, but the ribbon is same if memory serves proper!

[lilo]

Hello Christian,

Very, Very many thanks for your appreciated Help !

Best Regards

Lilo

[Great Dane]

Hi Lilo,

I was browsing through my pictures and found this (unfortunately I can't remember where I got it from ). It shows the Grand Cross with what is supposed to be the original sash.

/Mike

[Ed_Haynes]

Given the chaos that is Chinese Republican ribbons and awards, I think you'd need to find his group and see what ribbon it has (and hope it hasn't been replaced). While I have been in Chetwode Hall at the Indian Military Academy, I have no clue where his medals reside.

[lilo]

Hi Lilo,

I was browsing through my pictures and found this (unfortunately I can't remember where I got it from ). It shows the Grand Cross with what is supposed to be the original sash.

/Mike

Hi Mike / Ed

Many thanks for your answers.

Mike

I suspect that the original colour for the ribbon of this Order, was the 'dark crimson' as that in the photo posted by Christian L. (see also the photo I posted below)

I don't know when, but at some point later it chanched in the colours of the ribbon as in the photo you posted.

I'll try to dig a little deep and if I'll find something, I'll post the result here.

Again many thanks

Lilo

Edited January 29, 2009 by lilo

[GlennC]

The ribbon on my order has faded, but it is original and also dark crimson in color. I have a question about the presence of stars on the red rays. There are three of them on my order, can you help me to clarify what class that is.

[922F]

In simplified form, this Order comprises three 'classes' each divided into three 'ranks' for a total of nine 'grades'.   Quotes because these characterizations are not entirely accurate designations.  The number of stars indicates the rank of the insignia within class.  Three stars on insignia indicate the highest level within rank so a sash set with three stars would be "Special Grand Cordon" or senior most honor.  Other designators between classes include enamel color on 'rays' seen as white or blue on above specimens and, at some point ribbon, pattern.  Sources including World Orders of Knighthood and Merit describe this system.   

 

Wiki offers a simplified guide at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Brilliant_Star; one can visit the ROC President's Chinese language site as well.

 

As to ribbon color, there's little information on when it changed from 'dark crimson' to various striped combinations.  Some sources suggest post-WW II and some the early-mid 1950's.  Friends in Taipai have not been able to obtain this information from either the President's office, the Foreign Ministry or the Ministry of Defense.  Likewise, they have not been able to locate a register of recipients by serial number engraved on badge/star reverses via the same sources.  That information might help determine which type ribbon appropriately accompanies specific insignia.

[GlennC]

Thanks a lot for the comprehensive answer. Maybe someday it will be possible to determine by the numbers who was awarded.

[No one]

Dear Gentlemen,

 

There is a 1st class, a 2nd class and a 3rd class all with "grand cordon".

 

 

 

 

- 1st class:

 

 

 

 

 

- 2nd class 【Great Dane's picture】

 

 

- 3rd class:

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

Edited September 13, 2023 by No one

[lilo]

Hello No one,

Many, many thanks for this detailed answer although it is not completely clear (at least for me) !

ATB

Lilo

Edited September 13, 2023 by lilo

[No one]

Dear lilo,

 

" although it is not completely clear (at least for me) ! " I'll try to be clearer if you ask me.

 

" Field Marshal Philip Walhouse (Chetwode), 1st Baron Chetwode, (1869-1950), I discovered that He was awarded the : China, Order of the Brilliant Star, Grand Cordon."

 

If the Order of the Brilliant Star, is just the "Grand Cordon", then it's a second class. The badge having only two stars, all white rays.

As for the colours it could be all purple (probably in 1948) or purple with large yellow stripes and thin white ones on each side.

 

It's the only picture I have of an old 2nd class. It could be one like this one attributed to Field Marshal Philip Walhouse in 1948:

 

藏品名稱:二等景星勳章及證書-數位典藏與學習聯合目錄 (digitalarchives.tw)

 

 

Then the stipes came:

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

Edited September 15, 2023 by No one

[No one]

Dear Gentlemen,

 

If it can be helpful:

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

[No one]

Dear Gentlemen,

 

Here is the name of the 9 classes of the order:

- from 1941 to the 1950 with the number of orders attributed (I could not find the name Field Marshal Philip Walhouse):

 

 

- post 50's (after the name of the class comes the name of the ribbon): 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

[lilo]

6 hours ago, No one said:

Dear Gentlemen,

 

Here is the name of the 9 classes of the order:

- from 1941 to the 1950 with the number of orders attributed (I could not find the name Field Marshal Philip Walhouse):

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

 

Hello No ONE,

first of all many Thanks for the further information you gave me……. now all is clear !

 

As per the Brilliant Star awarded to Field Marshal Philip Walhouse (Chetwode), it was officially Gazetted (London Gazette) on 1st March, 1948 as follow:

 

Foreign Office, 1st March, 1948

The KING has been pleased to grant unrestricted permission for the wearing by the undermentioned persons of the decorations respectively indicated, conferred upon them by the President of the National Government of the Republic of China, in recognition of services rendered during the war

ORDER OF THE BRILLIANT STAR

With Grand Cordon

Field Marshal the Lord Chetwode, G.C.B., O.M., G.C.S.I., K.C.M.G., D.S.O.

1626 THE LONDON GAZETTE, 5 MARCH, 1948

 

Again, Many thanks

 

ATB

Lilo

Edited September 16, 2023 by lilo

[No one]

Dear Lilo,

 

You are welcome.

I was unable to locate Field Marshal Philip Walhouse's name on the lists.

All the names are written in Chinese, phonetically for foreigners, and unfortunately some, very few, are illegible.

 

Yours sincerly,

No one

 

 

[922F]

Hello No One,

Thank you for your clear descriptions.  

 

Have you been able to find a list of the names of persons awarded the order that includes the  number stamped on the insignia?

 

Could you confirm that the ribbon color would be all purple before early 1950's for all classes/grades of the Order?  To include rank one, grade B?

 

Example of rank one, grade B with number 430 has purple only sash & rank one, grade B with number 495 also has purple only sash but without usual rosette & European type bow [replacement sash?].  Number 430 attributed to President of Liberia [probably William V. S. Tubman {president 1944-1971, less likely William Tolbert {president 1971-1980}].  Number 495, probably given to unknown foreign person.

 

Sincere regards and thanks for your help!

[No one]

Dear 992F,

 

The information I have is limited to the one mentioned above. I think you have as much knowledge as I do.

 

"Have you been able to find a list of the names of persons awarded the order that includes the  number stamped on the insignia?"

 

Unfortunately no, not yet.

 

"Could you confirm that the ribbon color would be all purple before early 1950's for all classes/grades of the Order?  To include rank one, grade B?"

 

It seems by observation, that the ribbons were all purple, (紫色) 紫色 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书 (wikipedia.org),

even though I haven't seen any official documents describing them before the 50s. And I'm unable to determine the precise date when the stripes were added.

 

The numbers you give seem to be post 1950. You can find incomplete lists here :

景星勳章 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书 (wikipedia.org)

 

To find the lists with corresponding numbers will be great, indeed.

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

 

PS:

 

[922F]

Hello No One.

Sincere thanks for your excellent advice, in-depth research and fast reply!   I still try to find if and when Liberian Presidents received the Order as that may be a key to the number 430 set.  High level ROC delegations visited Liberia in the early and mid-1950's and also at least in 1964, 1969 and 1970.  These dates would indicate Tubman as president but do not answer why the insignia has an all purple sash.  I will post any further findings.

 

In your opinion, would this third level honor be appropriate for a head of state in the 1950's-1970's?  It may be that a Liberian president would receive a higher grade.  Possibly Liberian Vice-President/acting Foreign Minister Tolbert under Tubman received number 430.  The Republic of Korea, for example, awarded the first class Order of Diplomatic Service Merit [Grand Gwanghwa] to him around 1968.

All best regards!   

[No one]

Dear 922F,

 

Thanks for your kind words.

 

As for President William V. S. Tubman, did you check with the Indiana University William V.S. Tubman Papers, 1904-1992 - Archives Online at Indiana University (iu.edu), the answer may be there.

 

According to the lists, the presidents and prime ministers were awarded the first class, the second class for other ministers or ambassadors, the third for ambassadors, scholars and so on.

 

I think you know this site Introduction (president.gov.tw) and Orders and decorations bestowed by President Tsai,

 

I couldn't find from previous presidents.

 

I'm still looking, surfing the web...

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

[922F]

Hello No One,

Thank you again!!   Yes, I checked with the IU archives.  A personal visit would be required with no certainty of success in finding any information regarding decorations.  It appears that a list of both Tubman's and Tolbert's awards existed at one time in their personal and Liberian official records.  However, those appear to be 'missing'.  I know that both Tubman's & Tolbert's homes/museums were severely looted many times after Tolbert's execution and that some of their awards were sold 'on the street' as early as 1989 thru 1990.

 

Based on both your news and my own impressions, it may be that rank one, grade B with number 430 set may have belonged to Tolbert, awarded during his tenure as foreign minister.

 

The IU Tubman archive on-line presents images of Liberian dignitaries wearing various Orders and medals.  I found none with Liberians wearing Order of the Brilliant Star [or any other Chinese] awards as yet.

 

Thank you again for your help I will report any future findings here.

All best regards!!