Ribbon bar of Generalmajor Hermann Voigt-Ruscheweyh

[webr55]

Nothing very spectacular here.

The back:

Now here's a quiz: How far do you think I can get this one down to??

Chris

P.S. He was not in the Reichsheer.

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[Stogieman]

So we have double "war ribbons" but no long service or colonial awards?? I think the repair may not have been just right?? Interesting ribbon bar

[Deruelle]

Hi,

Have you looked in the Ehrard Roth's book ? May be the clue is the HHO3X (Hohenzollern knight cross with X), The BMVO4bX (Bavarian Military merit order 4th class with X), and the SA3X (Saxon Albert Order but I don't know the class, second or first). For your info

BMVO4bX : 24141

SA3aX : 3905

SA3bX : 11267

HHO3X : 8291

The work wil be very hard. But you have got a very nice ribbon bar, sorry for you that the device is missinig.

Regards

Christophe

[webr55]

Thanks for your comments!

I have to admit I have already done some HARD work on this bar.

HHOX is right, there is a small hole on the ribbon. And no campaign medal.

We have a figure: 3905 SA3aX

Still waiting for a guess: How far can I get him down to, what do you think?

Edited November 16, 2005 by webr55

[webr55]

And we have a long service, the colour of #3 is not the Crown Order.

[Deruelle]

For the long service, the officer may received this medal just after the war, in the 20th. This officier probably finished the war with the grade of captain.

Christophe

[webr55]

For the long service, the officer may received this medal just after the war, in the 20th. This officier probably finished the war with the grade of captain.

Christophe

Yes, he must have got the long service AFTER WW1 - no Centenary, so less than 25yrs before the war. However, he must have been Hauptmann in 1914 already, otherwise no long service after 1918. We are looking at a 1918/1919 Major a.D.

Which means #5 is the Saxon Albert 1st class: 3905 awarded.

[Stogieman]

Interesting then. We have "Pure Prussia" up front with:

1914 EK2

HHORKwX

Long Service Award

BMVO4wX

AORwX (1.? 2.?)

Hamburg Hanseatic (? not a faded Hesse, right?)

Austrian MMK3kd

Interesting.....

[Deruelle]

Chris,

Maybe this ribbon bar belonged to officer in the Reserve. I have seen ribbon bar which belonged to Major or Oberstleutnant and they had the BMVO4aX (the"a" is for the crown). Idon't know exactly. If I remeber the years of the war were multiplicable. So

Christophe

[Guest Rick Research]

Let me just be absolutely sure-- is the next to the last the Hamburg Hanseatic Cross, or the Hessian Bravery Medal with blue faded to white?

Because if that IS Hamburg...

I have his career and photo all ready for you....

[webr55]

Let me just be absolutely sure-- is the next to the last the Hamburg Hanseatic Cross, or the Hessian Bravery Medal with blue faded to white?

Because if that IS Hamburg...

I have his career and photo all ready for you....

Whatwhatwhat??

I have gone through THOUSANDS of names in ranklists, have thought to be very smart in getting this down to NINE suspects...

... and you tell me you have him right there!!!!!!

Yes, it is Hamburg, definitely not Hessen!

But first, tell me that I was on the right track: A Lt ca. 1898-1900, Maj a.D., probably an iG type, got the XXV in the 20s?!

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, I once owned his brother in law's 1918 Black Wound Badge document, so I know THIS fellow very well.

BUT! Which year Reichsheer did you look in? Because remember-- (God knows why) but the members of the Heeres Friedenkommission are listed SEPARATELY... between the medical officers and the Generals!

Here he is, ? 1992 Biblio Verlag, Osnabr?ck: Karl Friedrich Hildebrand, "Die Generale der deutschen Luftwaffe 1935-1945," Band 3: Odebrecht-Zoch.

[attachmentid=15919]

Hermann Voigt-Ruscheweyh. Born 30 May 1880 Wahrenbr?ck, Kreis Liebenwerda, died 26 August 1969 Wiesbaden.

Served in the GERMAN (and I stress GERMAN) army 15 March 1898 to 30 September 1928 because he THEN became a TURKISH military officer 1.11.28 to 31.10.32 before NEXT becoming a CHINESE officer 11.4.33 to 5 July 1938-- one of the last aiding Chiang Kai-Shek against the Japanese before Hitler realized this made things awkward with his new friends and called them home, whereupon he became a LUFTWAFFE 1 December 1938 to "31 December 1944" (actually 8 May 1945):

Leutnant 18.8.99

Oberleutnant 17.9.09

Hauptmann 1.10.13

Major 1.4.22

Oberstleutnant 1.2.28

Oberst 1.6.40

Generalmajor 1.10.43

Note that he is wearing BOTH HHOX and EK2 Spange devices on his 1914 buttonhole EK ribbon!

In this 1943+ photo he is wearing

EK2, HHOX (gazetted 24.5.17), BMV4X (not on rolls), SA3aX (3.2.15 as Adjutant, 6. Fu?artillerie Brigade), ?M3k, HH, HCX over Austrian WWICMX, LW 25, LW12, and four weird foreign awards which I wish were in color given his bizarre wanderings.

BTW-- you've been having quite a run of good luck with ribbon bars lately-- any feelings about winning lottery numbers?

1898-1904 in Foot Artillery Regiment 15

but 1901-03 to the Artillery and Engineer School

1905-12 back in Foot Artillery Regiment 15 as battalion and then rehimental Adjutant

1912- 1 August 1914 Adjutant 6th Foot Artillery Brigade (so SA3aX gave his PEACETIME unit!)

2.8.14-5.9.16 Adjutant of artillery commander on staff GenKdo 5. Armee

6.9.16-20.1.18 Battalion Commander on Fu?artillerie Regiment 20

21.-26.4.18 z.b.V. Chief of General Staff of the Field Army

27.4.-5.6.18 attached to the "Wumba" (war production)

6.6.-30.10.18 Battalion Commander Reserve Foot Art Rgt 8

31.10.-4.12.18 artillery staff officer GenKdo IX Armeekorps

5.12.18-12.5.19 regimental staff Foot Art Rgt 4

13.5.19-31.12.20 artillery commander's adjutant in Reichswehr Brigade 4

1.1.21-30.6.22 battery commander in Artillery Regiment 4

1.7.22-30.9.23 Adjutant of the 1st Cavalry Division

1.10.23-31.1.27 "Referent" with the Army Armistice Commission in League of nations section of the Reichswehr Ministry

1.2.27-30.9.28 staff of IV Battalion, Artillery Regiment 3

1928-1932 Instructor at the Artillery Shooting School, Istanbul

1932-1938 Instructor at the Artillery Shooting School NANKING (inconvenient atrocities witness)

1.12.38-30.9.41 "Ic" Luftgau Kommando XII

1.10.41-20.4.43 "Ic" Luftgau Kommando XXV

20.4.-31.10.43 zV "Fliegerersatz Bataillon XII" (i.e. no position held)

1.11.43-31.12.44 "Sachbearbeiter" Allg. Wehrachtamt/Abt. Inland, OKW

9.1.-8.5.45 volunteer assistant in 8. Abt. LW General Staff/OKL

[webr55]

THAT IS AWESOME!!

THANKS RICK!!!!!!!!!

Moral: If you go wrong right at the beginning, you may waste A LOT of time! I have to admit, I think I overlooked those few people in the Friedenskommission.

But let me just tell my story. It might also serve as a good estimate for whether this is a unique combination:

Started with: SA3aX:

3905

Checked for Prussian Army and BMV4X:

168

Checked for HHOX:

106

Checked for other decorations in 1914 RL:

46

Checked for Reichsheer service:

38

Eliminating those that were only Oberlt in 1914:

24

Eliminating those with Z?hringen:

22

Eliminating those that must have had the Centenary:

13

Eliminating from DAL 1918:

12

Discounting a too common name (M?ller):

11

Eliminating those KIA from Ehrenrangliste:

10

Eliminating one who probably had other awards (judging from Ehrenrangliste):

9

This left me with

1) Hptm Gustav Arnold, 1.10.1913 M12m

2) Hptm iG? Otto v. Brandenstein

3) Hptm i.G. Drews, 18.12.1913 B3b

4) Hptm iG Bruno Friese

5) Hptm iG v. Hepke, 1913

6) Hptm iG Kretzschmann, 1.10.1913 J45i

7) Hptm iG? Leo Petri, 22.3.1913 E2e

8) Hptm iG? Kurt Sichting 20.3.1911 Vv (Lt. 1.8.1897, Oberstlt aD)

9) Hptm iG Wagner, 27.1.1914 U2u, 27.1.1914 U2u

But your result exceeds my expectations! That teaches me not to ask in the forum first.

[Guest Rick Research]

Yeah, all because you assumed he was aD with a 1920 long service first. I once spent days looking for an original owner because the very first page I opened to start from... I put my left thumb obver his name holding the book.

Now many times with weird and rarer awards, no identification is possoble PRECISELY because they did not serve after 1920 and are "invisible."

The HHOX rolls, for instance are almost worthless-- no first names, no units for 1917 and 1918... so "Lt dR Schmidt" got one? Great!!! WHICH Lt dR Schmidt? nd the roll is nowhere near complete.

THIS bar is a perfect example of how common awards can make an uncommon combination. That, sometimes, is easier to find than the exotic stuff.

That, and I've "known" him for 30 years: I've misplaced his wife's first name, I think from the 1911 "Wer Ist's?" of his father in law's entry, but she was the daughter of Generalleutnant aD Otto Griepenkerl (1851-1930) and Katharina von Strombeck. Brother in law Kurt Griepenkerl ALSO vanishes from the Reichsheer in 1928 (a very suspicious year, for Soviet aviation training at Lipetsk usually, but he was no flyer) and apparently never returned-- off to Turkey with his sister's husband? on to China-- and then never returned? SOME German officers remained with the Kuomintang rather than serve Adolf Hitler...

not bad from one ribbon bar.

[Stogieman]

Please be advised that The (truly) Evil Rick (Research) is in a most foul and oppressive mood. I visited him briefly today but was driven off by the dangerously psychotic episode...... Beware of him! He is the Evil Ricky..........

[Guest Rick Research]

Hey!

Just because I haven't added an identifiable on its own ribbon bar to MY collection since...

April 16, 2004

[attachmentid=15954]

"It doesn't affect my job performance."

[webr55]

BTW, here we have the rare case of someone who wore the Turkish star in the correct way, without the ribbon on bar!

[Stogieman]

?????? He's wearing the Star on his breast pocket???

BTW, here we have the rare case of someone who wore the Turkish star in the correct way, without the ribbon on bar!

[Guest Rick Research]

No, he didn't have a TWM. Lord knows what that is, what with his exotic travels and Croatian WW2 stuff.

[Stogieman]

ummmmmmmm his other breast pocket has what sure looks like a TWM on it...... that's his r~i~g~h~t pocket.... ;>)

[webr55]

Update!

Voigt-Ruscheweyh's TWM is listed in the RH from 1926 on, till he drops out in 1929.

But I still think the ribbon is not on the photo. So he stuck to the regulations!

[Guest Rick Research]

I hate it when that happens! We rely on the Rank Lists for being "Gospel truth" and they are actually often full of mistakes-- part of what makes identifications difficult. I should have checked him in TWO Rank Lists.

Working on the -Strelitz roll, for instance, I found a Reichsheer officer: 1924 edition says it was the -Schwerin cross (same ribbon, and would have thought nothing more of it, if just checking a ribbon bar) but there he is in 1928 corrected to a -Strelitz.

I lost over 10 years on identifying an admiral because I found "no match" in 1926, when he was sitting on my shelves "corrected" in 1931 all along!

[webr55]

Right, it took them several years to correct the mistake.

BTW, could that be the TWM with halfmoon device, after all?

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[Guest Rick Research]

I think you are right there too, with the crescent sideways like a "C"-- making that the LATEST non-regulation wear for a TWM device I've seen.