M?daille de St. H?l?ne

Bear · February 24, 2009

Hello,

I have a question on the this medal. All the medals I've seen are bronze in color but did they make them in silver/plated. The one pictured looks silver in color.

thanks,

barry

Edited February 24, 2009 by Bear

Alex K · February 24, 2009

Hello,
I have a question on the this medal. All the medals I've seen are bronze in color but did they make them in silver/plated. The one pictured looks silver in color.
thanks,
barry

Hi, I've only ever seen them in bronze, here's mine for comparision

regards

Alex

Hendrik · February 25, 2009

The original and officially awarded medal is in the dark bronze colour as shown in Alex's picture.

Privately manufactured medals exist in silvered bronze, silver, silver with gilt centre and gilt crown and even with the medal's wreath painted or enamelled green ... I wouldn't be surprised if one day a pure gold one turns up in some auction.

Cheers,

Hendrik

Alex K · February 25, 2009

The original and officially awarded medal is in the dark bronze colour as shown in Alex's picture.
Privately manufactured medals exist in silvered bronze, silver, silver with gilt centre and gilt crown and even with the medal's wreath painted or enamelled green ... I wouldn't be surprised if one day a pure gold one turns up in some auction.
Cheers,
Hendrik

Hi Hendrik, thanks for that interesting information, when you say privately manufactured, I assume that they were not official, and as such could they be classed as fakes?

regards

Alex

Ed_Haynes · February 25, 2009

As with almost all French medals, were any "officially maunfactured"?

You got your certificate in the post and toddled off and bought your gong?

(Like post-1918 German awards?)

Edited February 25, 2009 by Ed_Haynes

Alex K · February 25, 2009

As with almost all French medals, were any "officially maunfactured"?
You got your certificate in the post and toddled off and bought your gong?
(Like post-1918 German awards?)

Interesting that, I didn't know. Would that also apply to the Legion D'Honneur? The reason for the question is that there are numerous "Presentation" photo's of the LDH and other medals, I would have thought that some at least must have been "Official"

Post 1918 Imperial awards makes sense as after 1918, they basically didn't exist

regards

Bear · February 25, 2009

Thanks :cheers:

I might go for it. It also comes with a miniature.

thanks again,

barry

Ed_Haynes · February 25, 2009

There is/was a very nice web site (in French, of course, so . . . :banger: ) with rolls of recipients and some marvelous photos of the old guys wearing their medals and trying to squeeze into their old uniforms. Somehow, the URL has gone missing here. Anyone??

Bear · February 25, 2009

The medals of Saint H?l?na

http://www.stehelene.org/php/accueil.php?lang=en

Ed_Haynes · February 25, 2009

Thanks! :beer:

Chris Boonzaier · February 25, 2009

As with almost all French medals, were any "officially maunfactured"?
You got your certificate in the post and toddled off and bought your gong?
(Like post-1918 German awards?)

Hmmmm... I think that is wrong and needs to be set straight.

French, Like post WW1 German awards were not only given on paper. You get a paper AND a medal, and can if you want buy more.

SOME French medals (and these are few, mostly civilian or for past service) are self bought. You get a certificate of status, and this status allows you to wear a certain medal, which you have to buy. I don't think this is true for serving military though.

There ARE official manufacturers for many of the medals and ONLY they are allowed to produce them. Some medals have had exclusively one producer since the 1920s..... A handful of medals have numerous makers.

Best

Chris

Ulsterman · February 25, 2009

God lord! I had no idea they were compiling a complete database. They are over half way there! Interesting to compare the Wutemburger recipients with the iron helm list too-

Alex K · February 25, 2009

There is/was a very nice web site (in French, of course, so . . . ) with rolls of recipients and some marvelous photos of the old guys wearing their medals and trying to squeeze into their old uniforms. Somehow, the URL has gone missing here. Anyone??

I did have it, I'll need to look into my archive info, quite an interesting site. Oops didn't see the earlier post, that was the one I was thinking about

Edited February 25, 2009 by Alex K

Hendrik · February 25, 2009

...when you say privately manufactured, I assume that they were not official, and as such could they be classed as fakes?

Hi Alex,

Not quite : recipients entitled to the official medal would go off to a jeweller's to either have their medal enhanced or buy a top class executed medal for wearing. It does show the high esteem in which some of these veterans held the award and the importance they felt it had.

Sadly, I don't have any examples of these to show here. Perhaps Bison or Veteran can help in that respect ?

Cheers,

Hendrik

Alex K · February 26, 2009

Hi Alex,
Not quite : recipients entitled to the official medal would go off to a jeweller's to either have their medal enhanced or buy a top class executed medal for wearing. It does show the high esteem in which some of these veterans held the award and the importance they felt it had.
Sadly, I don't have any examples of these to show here. Perhaps Bison or Veteran can help in that respect ?
Cheers,
Hendrik

Hi Hendrik thanks for the clarification

regards

Alex

Bison · February 26, 2009

The M?daille de Sainte-H?l?ne was delivered to the Veterans by the government and, (as far as I know!), the model was the same for everybody.

They received their medal in a little white box :

In which they found the famous medal.

With it, was a green flyer, giving them the choice of one of the three different reduced models (two Francs to be paid in return :rolleyes: ). This advertising paper proves that the Government sent an official medal to the vets, and if they would, a reduced one to be paid.

(this last pic from http://zitocland.forumpro.fr/forum.htm )

In fact, other jewellers also offered to "improve" the prestigious medal in plating some gold or silver, and even in covering the Emperor's face in blue / black enamel... Do'nt forget that it was one of the first campaign medal in France and the recipients were numerous, therefore the market was large.

Sometimes, one can find this medal in aluminum (!), which was considered as a precious metal in the middle-end of the XIX century.

However,I have never seen a medal in solid gold or silver.

I hope these details help...

Best regards

Ed_Haynes · February 26, 2009

Many thanks. Always learning . . . .

Alex K · February 26, 2009

The M?daille de Sainte-H?l?ne was delivered to the Veterans by the government and, (as far as I know!), the model was the same for everybody.
They received their medal in a little white box :
In which they found the famous medal.
With it, was a green flyer, giving them the choice of one of the three different reduced models (two Francs to be paid in return ). This advertising paper proves that the Government sent an official medal to the vets, and if they would, a reduced one to be paid.
(this last pic from http://zitocland.forumpro.fr/forum.htm )
In fact, other jewellers also offered to "improve" the prestigious medal in plating some gold or silver, and even in covering the Emperor's face in blue / black enamel... Do'nt forget that it was one of the first campaign medal in France and the recipients were numerous, therefore the market was large.
Sometimes, one can find this medal in aluminum (!), which was considered as a precious metal in the middle-end of the XIX century.
However,I have never seen a medal in solid gold or silver.
I hope these details help...
Best regards

Is that box and contents original, and is it yours?, It must be a very rare example if it's in it's original state, thanks for posting. If every recipient recieved the same award (same size), why would they want tp pay for reduced sizes (Minatures), I admit never seen smaller sizes than the one I've got, or in different finishes

regards

Alex

Bison · February 26, 2009

This box is mine, and the medal inside too, and the recipient was GIRARDOT... unfortunately this is the only information I have.

His name is writen on the reverse of the box.

Why whould they want to pay for reduced sizes? The reduced sizes were more elegant to be worn permanently on civilian dress...

Happy to see you are interested in that issue.

Best regards

Chris Boonzaier · February 26, 2009

The medal has a fantastic quality, the engraver and the maker were fantastic.

Bison · February 26, 2009

The engraver was BARRE, who made some other well known campaign medals (Mexico, China, etc..).

The maker was the Monnaie de Paris factory, which is still the official medal maker (but not exclusive) in France.

His personal mark is an anchor, you can see just under the bust of Napol?on.

Bison · February 26, 2009

The medal has a fantastic quality, the engraver and the maker were fantastic.

Hi Chris

For your eyes only

:beer:

Bison · February 26, 2009

And don't forget the reverse, which is the most powerful :

"Campaigns from 1792 to 1815.

For his companions of glory, his last thoughts.

Saint Helen, the 5th of May 1821"

:ninja:

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