New Named Kriegsmarine Ribbon Bar

[P.F.]

Hi. Received this in the post yesterday. Attributed to:

Vizeadmiral Reichskriegsgerichtsrat Dr.jur. Max Flegel.

EK II Kl

Sachsen-Weimar Wei?en Falken Orden- Ritterkreuz II Kl mit Schwertern

HCX

DA25

DA12

KUK III Kl mit Kriegdekoration

Can this be verified?

Many thanks

Pierce

Edited March 8, 2009 by luftkreig

[P.F.]

Reverse. :blush:

Edited March 7, 2009 by luftkreig

[Stogieman]

Your reverse pix isn't showing. What color are the eagles on the 2 LS awards?

Thanks

[P.F.]

Your reverse pix isn't showing. What color are the eagles on the 2 LS awards?

Thanks

Hi. Have edited my 1st post, the eagles are GOLD!

Kind regards

Pierce

[HeikoGrusdat]

.... I don`t want to talk everything into the grave - BUT - this nice red ribbon looks very very new..... against the other ribbons on the bar ?!

[Guest Rick Research]

Believe me, Heiko-- there is NO way-- NO way on this Earth or in any other dimension-- that tabbies THAT rusted could be bent and rebent again. Note the unscratched scale from corrosion-- no sharp scrapies from monkey-fingers twiddling with things. Couldn't. They will snap right off if they get stared at too long.

I ... know these things by long and experience. (Things were... different in 1971....)

As to attribution? Absolutely no way to tell whatsoever. There is no indication of army versus navy since there is no uniform cloth backing for clues like on the most common sewn down form of ribbon bar. The GSF3bX Roll is the only class incomplete from Weimar for the war (award rolls books still available ) and we have no ?M3K roll yet, though Roman is working on one. All that CAN be said is that no combatant or medical/veterinary officer in either the Reichsheer or Reichsmarine had this combination--

so the recipient was either a Beamter, was in the police under the Weimar Republic before returning to military duty, or was a retired officer recalled for WW2. Weimar was stingy and this fellow COULD have gone out in 1920as a char. major aD with an old XXV exchanged for the new model when called up zV in 1939-- though precedence suggests a 1936-38 bar.

[HeikoGrusdat]

..........of course Rick... I have seen the rusty back as well... just saw the bright shining red colour.....

[Claudio]

I quite agree with Heiko... I don't like these ribbon bars with inter-changeable small aluminium plates... although the prongs on the back of such plates can easely break, the chance that someone would quite simply fabricate fantasy combinations is quite high. Therefore, also if this type of ribbon bars existed, I am not collecting these... it's a question of taste, I guess... I would only collect them if they come in a group with the medal or other ribbon bars.

My 2 cents...

Ciao,

Claudio

Edited March 8, 2009 by Claudio

[saschaw]

I recently got such a tab back bar. I absolutely do not prefer them but that one came directely from the wearer's family. If it came from anywhere I'd hardly doubt it is a real one. However I think Rick is right about the rusty ones. It may work, but four out of five won't survive any changing. ;)

[P.F.]

Thank you all for your input and especially to Rick. Having this ribbon bar in hand i agree with him, the tabs have not been opened at the back, this bar is in somewhat brittle condition. As for the red ribbon...looks the same colour as the stripe in the HCX imo...could be the photographer... .

The name was mis-spelt, his sur-name is Flegel, not Flegal..........i went to the Axis Research website and got this....picture matches the ribbon bar but they have a habit on that site of getting the wrong picture with the name.

http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/

Let me know your expert opinions on this possibllity.

Thanks again

Pierce

[Guest Rick Research]

Claudio-- the aluminum tabbies are actually quite uncommon. What most of these are are nickled STEEL.

the first type tabbies came out circa 1916 and were heavy steel painted Feldgrau. Don't ask/won't tell but I can assure you that there is 0%--ZERO--to bend those 90+ year old thick brittle tabs and rebend them. That fall right off even unbending them. That style-- with the field gray paint-- people often think have been meddled with because the tabs rubbed the paint off by contact with clothes and the soft paint surface gets quite scratched up, giving a FALSE impression of meddling which is simply actual wear patterns. Feldgraus cannot even be undone and replaced without breaking.

The nickled steel tabbies were a very very bad idea. As seen on the one above, once they get corroded, they corrode WORSE than if they were just plain steel. So those either look perpetually brand new as intended back then--and aren't--or are fused together by rust. They are flimsy in contrast to the thick brittle Feldgraus and are almost guaranteed to snap off even when still perfect-- and totally guaranteed to snap off if rusted like the one above.

So Feldgraus and corroded steel tabbies are, I can assure you all, "safe."

Non corroded nickled ones yes you have to be careful because... there were Naughty People (mea culpa) who once upon a time long ago MIGHT have "played" with things that then had no value and were in plentiful supply in stock combinations handed out by the hundreds of thousands. What squeaked by in 1970 twiddling has got 40 years of increased age stress now. (Haven't we all, though? )

Aluminum tabbies are indeed dangerous. They are also by far a minority of bars found. So finding one at all and then subtracting one that has been played with is a sub set of a minority of a minority.

By far the commonest frauds have been and always will be the sewn down on solid curved ( backing varieties. So in many ways tabbies are SAFER than sewn-togethers, because while Frankensteins can cheat about the ribbons, Mother Nature Is Not Fooled about the flimsiness of visibly aged tab-backs.