Organisational Badges 25,15 & 10yr NSDAP device ribbon bar.

[Ulsterman]

IF that was the final cutoff date, that would again SEVERELY restrict the number of NSDAP 25s that were ever possible-- thus further explaining why REAL ones are so incredibly rare.

That is an understatement!

Just to recap chaps:

Given that there were only 22,250 Gold Party Badges and that NSDAP # 100,000 was given out @ October/November of 1928..........and if the 1928 NSDAP entrants were NOT given the medal.......and recipients HAD to be a party cadre (even in an affiliated organization)......then an awarded 25 LS is (at a most generous estimation) about as rare as a Blood Order and probably much rarer!

Joe W's female medal must only number in the very low hundreds!

Two other factoids:

1. NSDAP LS medals were noted in Wehrpasses (which surprised me) and

2. According to Patzwall, the last Blood Orders were handed out in May, 1942.

Another discussion that just boosted world-wide medal prices I expect.

Deutschbauers" NSDAP # was 545.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Ulsterman

[Guest Rick Research]

Colin-- what is the Gold Party Badge number listed for that group?

I don't find Deutschbauer listed in either the 1935 "Wer Ist's?" or in "5000 K?pfe" suggesting a low level functionary cashing in on his early Party membership for a government paycheck.

[Ulsterman]

Well, I found a maddeningly tantalizing reference to pp, 114-116 in "Verfungen,Anordnungen Bekanntgaben (1943) edited by F. Eher to some sort of NSDAP Dienstauszeichnung regulation change in Jan. 1943!

NSDAP Chancellory decrees regarding the medal are numbered: 24336,26215, 14906,24544 and 25455. Now if someone could only get to Ann Arbor to actually look and see what they say!! :banger: :banger:

[Robin Lumsden]

Apparently the party allowed the 25 year cross to party cadres killed either in bombing raids or in military service as honor awards. This was decreed in April, 1944.

I'd never heard of that, but if it's true then surely that must have meant that many thousands of 25 year crosses must have been awarded...............even if only on paper.

[Colin Davie]

GPB and bar reverse.

C

[Ulsterman]

I'd never heard of that, but if it's true then surely that must have meant that many thousands of 25 year crosses must have been awarded...............even if only on paper.

Apparently what it says is "the party service award", the implication that it would be the highest class-the 25 year.

Merely heresay at this point, but it certainly sounds like the sort of thing they might have done. It might also be that the awards were merely authorized, but still in abeyance for the duration.

[Guest Rick Research]

Thanks Colin! I'd say a 3 digit Party number pretty much qualified for all that early double time!

BTW, the "Party decoration" concerned above was NOT the NSDAP 25 but the infamous "German Order" largely invented in 3-D by Herr Doktor Klietmann, of which endless increasingly freakazoid "variations" are still "miraculously" appearing out of the woodwork.

[Ulsterman]

Thanks Colin! I'd say a 3 digit Party number pretty much qualified for all that early double time!

BTW, the "Party decoration" concerned above was NOT the NSDAP 25 but the infamous "German Order" largely invented in 3-D by Herr Doktor Klietmann, of which endless increasingly freakazoid "variations" are still "miraculously" appearing out of the woodwork.

Huh??

It says "NSDAP Dienstauszeichnung" (in the Decrees).

Do you refer to the Volk. Beob. "medal awarded to dead cadres" ? :unsure:

Edited March 11, 2009 by Ulsterman

[Ulsterman]

Further notes on the 25 year NSDAP LS medal:

Two additional facts have surfaced.

1. Newspaper reports from 1942 state that the NSDAP 25 year cross was to be awarded for the FIRST time in 1942 (with a cut off date in 1941).

2. In perusing the Miller files of SS officers and other sundry interesting people, it is clear that some very few NSDAP 25 year crosses were awarded in 1942. These went to SS men whose careers WERE NOT professional party leiters, but old party members who held SS ranks and/or "officer status" in other affiliated NSDAP organizations. They certainly bounced around a bit and held concurrent posts in odd departments here and there.

But, as a fact, it is certain that 25 year crosses were awarded to NSDAP members who held lower party (volunteer type) organizational rank before 1933, but were tagged as SS, SA or NSKK officers.

However, the BIG shock is that of ALL the files I have looked at so far, ONLY those members in the NSDAP in 1925 received the cross in 1942! I had assumed that 1926 members received the medal, but there are those who joined in 1927 who SPECIFICALLY DID NOT get it, or it's not in their file (despite other awards from 1943/44 being noted).

Nobody so far has turned up ANY NSDAP award dates after 1942, despite my pleas.

That is one rare group of medals. :speechless1:

Edited April 1, 2009 by Ulsterman

[Robin Lumsden]

...............were tagged as SS, SA or NSKK .............

That's the crucial bit of the whole thing.

[Ulsterman]

Ah-but in looking at even more new and really obscure information, it doesn't change the numbers much at all IMHO.

The one new thing I have learned this week after far too much searching in obscure libraries and book footnotes is that there were a higher percentage of females in the class of 1925 than in following "entry years", but they tended to be somewhat older and less likely to have cadre status. Many were wives/daughters/Aunts/Mums of 1923 men. There's even an article on this phenomenon in an Applied Behaviour journal!

Also, many of these early party members had poorer educations and lacked management skills. Still, their lower numbers mattered, especially as SA officers etc..

In one Gau Joe W. mentioned that in 1942 of all the 100+ GPB members a whopping SIX got the 25 year cross and one of these was not a NSDAP cadre, but an affiliated organization officer. I have come across some really obscure "Kampf and Sieg" publications that name a few hundred more GPB awardees.

Given the NSDAP and Frauenshaft/SS/201 officers files microfiche at NARA it is hypothetically possible to actually figure out how many were eligible for the medal. One researcher has over 55% of the names so far.

If only I had a decade of free time and lived in Maryland.

Oh-I learned one other trivia fact today-but I am saving that until the book arrives from New York.

[Riley1965]

Thanks guys.

I realize how rare it is and how lucky I am to have it. It is in good safe hands.

Hi Stogieman, Here is another that may look familiar to you.

Regards,

AB.

What is the circular device on the "Long Service"(?) Ribbon? I've never seen it before.

Doc

[andrewb]

Doc,

That's the 8yr SS long service device. Only authorize for wear on a ribbon bar for a very short time.

Regards,

AB.

[der-hase-fee]

Hello,

I would be interested in opinions on this medal bar. I believe some detail may be missing, but I have no means to compare to an original. Appreciate your contribution.

[tyanacek]

Hi guys,

Here is one from my collection. I would love to have the medal bar to match this ribbon bar.

Best regards,

Tom

[tyanacek]

reverse:

[tyanacek]

NSDAP devices:

[tyanacek]

Here is a fake ribbon bar with all three NSDAP awards plus an SS Long Service. This one is being offered as original and priced at $295 on a dealer's website. This would be a super bargain if it was real.

Best regards,

Tom

[tyanacek]

Here is the reverse. This bar shows all the classic signs of a fake put-together bar.

[Hauptmann]

Better picture of Schepmann's bar.

I've seen another photo of a bar like this being worn, but I can't remember where.

Robin... don't know if this is the one you were thinking of seeing but I remembered it as showing a bar with all three of the NSDAP awards. I can't for the life of me remember the name of the Gauleiter in this pic but hoping you or one of the other members can fill in that blank.

[Hauptmann]

Closeup of the bar:

Bout the best I could do on this one.

Also, would SS-Brigadefuhrer Ulrich Graf have had all three... he was one of the very early members. There's a pic of him in this same volume but I can't make out whether he's got them on his ribbon bar. I've tried to find another matching pic or a better one showing the bar more clearly but can't find one.

Dan

[Ulsterman]

Bumping up for Joe W. if he comes here:

[JoeW]

Bumping up for Joe W. if he comes here:

Another variation of an Ehrenwaffe pass. Sorry I had no notice that it was posted as I had not visited this illuminating thread before. And I thank you very much.

The facts and figures are really interesting. I will see if I can add anything to the discussion.

Edited July 9, 2010 by JoeW

[JoeW]

Is anyone reading this thread anymore? I wanted to remark that an August 1944 Gau Verordnungsblatt remarked that long service medal production was restricted, but that a quantity was being provided in the Gau for presentation to families of party members qualifying but who had died before the enemy. Qualified living party members were receiving a notice (Einklebezettel) for their party books and a length of appropriate ribbon.

[Ulsterman]

WOW!!!!

Hard evidence at last!

Yeah, I reckon LOTs of people are reading this thread, but as usual, only a few of us have put the pieces together or dug around in the archives.

Near as we can tell outright annual awards ended in 1943.

there is a tantalizing Rubric order regarding Partei Abzeichen awards @ March 1943 in the Fuhrer decrees Index summary, but so far I have been unable to obtain the actual text.

RR may have a few more tidbits and has some Gau listings of awardees. I think He got one of them from you Joe.

I hesitate to write more because last time we started off on a tangent like this prices exploded.