nesredep Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Hello!Need help of these.Good ????All the best Nesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hello!Any opinion and comment. All the bestNesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The document itself and the ink stamp look fine. The Admiral der norwegischen Westk?ste was Admiral Otto von Schrader. I dont have another example of his signature to compare with yours but it certainly looks as if the signature on the document could be "v. Schrader" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 The document itself and the ink stamp look fine. The Admiral der norwegischen Westk?ste was Admiral Otto von Schrader. I dont have another example of his signature to compare with yours but it certainly looks as if the signature on the document could be "v. Schrader"Hello!GordonThanks for quick help.I think i buy this document. All the bestNesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Orchard Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I agree with Gordon, von Schrader's signature is quite distinctive and the style of the document is the 'classic' style coming from the commanding admiral of the Norwegian West coast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 I agree with Gordon, von Schrader's signature is quite distinctive and the style of the document is the 'classic' style coming from the commanding admiral of the Norwegian West coastHello!Thanks for comment. All the bestNesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Hello!Please Post your Bergen,Oslo,Trondhim,Bod? and Narvik Document here.Thanks for interest and help. All the best Nesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 23, 2009 Author Share Posted April 23, 2009 Hello!Document from Oslo. All the best Nesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avadski Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) Wow! May 8, 1945! Did they have time for such administration on that day? :) Edited April 24, 2009 by avadski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Since there were no Allied troops available, Wehrmacht forces continued self-administration in Norway through the summer of 1945.Kapit?n zur See (01.04.45) Alfred "Westerkamp" was 1st Adjutant of Naval High Command Norway from 1 October 1943 to end of the occupation. He was released from POW camp 12.12.47. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 24, 2009 Author Share Posted April 24, 2009 Since there were no Allied troops available, Wehrmacht forces continued self-administration in Norway through the summer of 1945.Kapit?n zur See (01.04.45) Alfred "Westerkamp" was 1st Adjutant of Naval High Command Norway from 1 October 1943 to end of the occupation. He was released from POW camp 12.12.47.Hello!RickThanks for interesting comment. All the bestNesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avadski Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Interesting indeed...does that mean that even though whole Germany was occupied by Allies, Norway was still occupied and administered by Germans? Even 2-3 months after Allied victory in Europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 Hello!Please post your`s to compare.Oslo,Bergen,Trondhjem,Narvik,Harstad and Troms?.Thanks for interest and help. All the bestNesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Orchard Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Interesting indeed...does that mean that even though whole Germany was occupied by Allies, Norway was still occupied and administered by Germans? Even 2-3 months after Allied victory in Europe?Yes and no... Norway is a big country and then it wasn't all that easy to reach everywhere quickly. There was also a shortage of available British troops to take the surrender and control the German armed forces so what happened was, the Germans were essentially put under the command of the British whilst keeping their structure intact, much easier to let the Germans look after themselves. They were responsible for discipline, guarding depots and supplies and so on. It was only towards the end of July that the process of screening troops (for warcrimes) and evacuation to the continent really got underway. This is why you see awards like the Lapplandschild being made after 8th May, promotions and why in soldbucher you see weapons being handed in weeks or more after the end of the war. The wehrmacht as a functioning organisation survived in Norway until the autumn of 1945.The date of award might well be backdated in this case in order to make it 'legitimate' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytop Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 Hi,"The wehrmacht as a functioning organisation survived in Norway until the autumn of 1945."That is not correct.Since the 9th May, 1945 there were the armed forces no more, there were only former armed forces members, in Norway as prisoners of war.In Norway, however, with extensive self-government.All entries in service records in relation on decorations and promotions after the 8th May have no legal validity.Also the award documents, issued after the 8th May, have no validity.Nevertheless, these are very interesting time-historical documents!RegardsUwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Orchard Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 (edited) I'm sorry Uwe, but what was ordered on the continent is not what happened in Norway, This is why awards from this period are on the authority of B?hme or Kranke for the KM. How these awards and promotions were later regarded by German authorities is not relevant to what actually happened in 1945 or how the German armed forces in Norway functioned from 8th May 1945 until around October, nor for that matter how the British regarded promotions or the authority and responsibilities of the Germans.There were no 'prisoners of war' and no POW camps. All troops were ordered to gather into 'Reservations' the structure of command and control was retained from Armee, through Korps and downwards. What we see is the restructuring of the Heer, LW and KM in order to carry out their new tasks which included gathering weapons and equipment into central locations, mine clearing on land and at sea, providing guards and security for supplies in order to prevent the civilian population, dumping of ammunition, clearing of defences, help in rebuilding, providing transport and repair facilities etc. etc. etc.For example. the stab of Armee Abteilung Narvik under Ferdinand Jodl became the 'Deutscher Befehlshaber der Zone Troms?', he went into captivity on the 9th or 10th of august if i remember correctly, his headquarters at Rundhaug was only first searched and the staff disarmed in a joint British\Norwegian operation on the 3rd of July. Korps headquarters were only dissolved in August, the 71 AK was for example ordred abolished on the 12th August. Edited April 26, 2009 by Simon Orchard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I think there is some confusion here...that the German units were functioning after the war, no argument. The wifes grandfather was there in the Marine and after the war it was business as usual (without combat of course) for a number of months after the war. That is partially why there are so many Marine "Denazified" badges, he was working with the brits and wore denazified badges.Uwe is however right as well. For the Bundesrepublik a post war Norwegian promotion wont count, For the associations of KC winners a post armistice KC wont count and men joining the BW in the 50s were not allowed to wear post surrender awards.Noone would moan if you wore your late 45 EK2 to the veterans association meeting, but officially they are not legit. Ditto for the ones to minesweepers. Well merited awards... but done on the initiative of the local commander and are as such unofficial.BestChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Orchard Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 That's about the size of it Chris. What i'm trying to get across is the notion that on the 8th or 9th of May 1945, the German armed forces in Norway simply laid down their arms and marched off to POW cages under allied guard is simply not what happened. That the German armed forces in Norway were and remained intact and under their own command for months after the surrender is fact, basically all that happened was that instead of taking orders from OKW and the other high commands, they took orders from the British allied joint military commander.You can well understand a sort of defiance on their part and as far as they were concerned they were doing things by the book as far as possible given the circumstances, hence the very specific wording on things like this document. That the post war authorities had to draw a line in the sand with the 9th May is also fully understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 I'm sorry Uwe, but what was ordered on the continent is not what happened in Norway, This is why awards from this period are on the authority of B?hme or Kranke for the KM. How these awards and promotions were later regarded by German authorities is not relevant to what actually happened in 1945 or how the German armed forces in Norway functioned from 8th May 1945 until around October, nor for that matter how the British regarded promotions or the authority and responsibilities of the Germans.There were no 'prisoners of war' and no POW camps. All troops were ordered to gather into 'Reservations' the structure of command and control was retained from Armee, through Korps and downwards. What we see is the restructuring of the Heer, LW and KM in order to carry out their new tasks which included gathering weapons and equipment into central locations, mine clearing on land and at sea, providing guards and security for supplies in order to prevent the civilian population, dumping of ammunition, clearing of defences, help in rebuilding, providing transport and repair facilities etc. etc. etc.For example. the stab of Armee Abteilung Narvik under Ferdinand Jodl became the 'Deutscher Befehlshaber der Zone Troms?', he went into captivity on the 9th or 10th of august if i remember correctly, his headquarters at Rundhaug was only first searched and the staff disarmed in a joint British\Norwegian operation on the 3rd of July. Korps headquarters were only dissolved in August, the 71 AK was for example ordred abolished on the 12th August.Hello!I agree. All the bestNesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 That's about the size of it Chris. What i'm trying to get across is the notion that on the 8th or 9th of May 1945, the German armed forces in Norway simply laid down their arms and marched off to POW cages under allied guard is simply not what happened. That the German armed forces in Norway were and remained intact and under their own command for months after the surrender is fact, basically all that happened was that instead of taking orders from OKW and the other high commands, they took orders from the British allied joint military commander.You can well understand a sort of defiance on their part and as far as they were concerned they were doing things by the book as far as possible given the circumstances, hence the very specific wording on things like this document. That the post war authorities had to draw a line in the sand with the 9th May is also fully understandable.Hello!SimonAmazing document.Thanks for sharing. All the bestNesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 Hello!SimonIs there any document from HORTEN ?All the best Nesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 Hello!GentelmanPlease post your Norwegian DOCUMENT.Thanks for help and interest. All the bestNesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Orchard Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I posted a bunch of them over on the samlerforumet a while backLink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 I posted a bunch of them over on the samlerforumet a while backLinkHello!SimonI have seen them on the samlerforumet. I hope some from GMIC want to share,from the collection. All the bestNesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now