2dresq Posted December 1, 2009 Author Posted December 1, 2009 That is a fine example Peter B. and great photo to possibly mount the picture with the tally. I plan on doing a layout very similar to the wonderful example that Gordon showed with his stunning collection with the ship and then the tally. I have been wondering if I should do multi-images since for some ships, there are so many good shots of them. Or if I should just pick just one nice shot and make it larger. I will probably have to do that with the smaller units/ships. If I was to do this, I would need a big space of wall to mount all those photos and tallies. It is my passion to collect the Kriegsmarine tallies. I have been extremely fortunate to have acquired some of the tallies in such a short amount of time. I have been on this kick for a little over a year now. Very nice example Peter! Regards As Peter said, The Bismark was not a tally that was ever produced. The Prinz Eugen is probably one of the rarest examples out there. I know what I would offer for a genuine example. Currently saving my coins for the Unterseeboot tallies. (Need to save a lot) then I will start making my run to complete my surface fleet with the Scharnhorst, Admiral Hipper, Several more Destroyers and Torpedoboats. Regards, Justin 2dresq
Peter BL Posted December 1, 2009 Posted December 1, 2009 Just seen this one.....Only one pic and 93cm long. Does it stand a chance? http://cgi.ebay.de/Muetzenband-Kriegsmarine-Schlachtschiff-Gneisenau-WWII_W0QQitemZ180439521773QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item2a030899ed Peter
2dresq Posted December 2, 2009 Author Posted December 2, 2009 I asked the seller to post some back shots or send them to my email address. It could have a shot, It doesn't appear to be a gold wire model from this picture. Probably a cellon version if it is genuine. 94cm kind of interests me as well. If this is a shortened one and if this could be like the Scharnhorst (HMS Belfast) fake? Kind of getting pricey too. I will share as soon as I get a response from the seller. Regards, Justin 2dresq
SICHERHEITSDIENTS Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 hi alls this is my meager collection of km cap tallies,i hope you enjoy them...too much money for purchasing them,i would like to get "admiral scheer",twice i lost it on ebay i attatched my blog where you can see too my km badges... http://l11-velasco.blogspot.com/ happy new year 2010 from spain fernando
2dresq Posted December 28, 2009 Author Posted December 28, 2009 Those are impressive tallies. You have a wonderful assortment of naval tallies from around the western and eastern world. Very nicely displayed. Your website is very good. I wish I had the skill to do something like that. Regards, Justin 2dresq
Peter BL Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Another edition to the Tally collection and one I've been looking for a while now... KR..Peter
SICHERHEITSDIENTS Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Those are impressive tallies. You have a wonderful assortment of naval tallies from around the western and eastern world. Very nicely displayed. Your website is very good. I wish I had the skill to do something like that. Regards, Justin 2dresq hi justin im happy you enjoy my web and my km tallies,im looking for the admiral scheer one,can you help me if you see any...?last week i lost on ebay,my final bid was 131,and another purchased in 132 euros...!!!!!!!!!!!! in the last few seconds HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU AND FAMILY FROM SPAIN fernando
Peter BL Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) Hi Fernando...sorry mate the was me:whistle:...Tally as above. I'm sure another will come along soon. Happy New Year to all..Peter Edited December 30, 2009 by Peter Baillie
SICHERHEITSDIENTS Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Hi Fernando...sorry mate the was me:whistle:...Tally as above. I'm sure another will come along soon. Happy New Year to all..Peter i hope so another scheer peter...soryy for my english but i understnd yo won this scheer tally on ebay germany,isn,t it? congratulation to you and HAPPY NEW YEAR FROM SPAIN TO YOU AN FAMILY fernando
Peter BL Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 i hope so another scheer peter...soryy for my english but i understnd yo won this scheer tally on ebay germany,isn,t it? congratulation to you and HAPPY NEW YEAR FROM SPAIN TO YOU AN FAMILY fernando Hi Fernando..Yes it was me..couldn't pass on this one. Happy New year to you..Peter
SICHERHEITSDIENTS Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Hi Fernando..Yes it was me..couldn't pass on this one. Happy New year to you..Peter what interesting and what a little world....are you the winner!!!!!!!!!! what was the top money you bid on such.....? i payed 180 euros for deutschland to a spanish dealer i payed 261 for graf spee on ebay i payed 250 for unterseeboot flotille saltzwedel but then were happy times with money....
Peter BL Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Hi Fernando...It was a bit of a sweat. I won't put a bid in until the last 20 seconds of the auction (and pray the broadband can keep up). I think my highest was 150eur on the Scheer. Peter
Laurens Q Posted December 30, 2009 Posted December 30, 2009 Nice collection, gents. And Justin, I'm curious about the two bottom tallies in your first picture. When was that kind of font used? Are those prewar tallies? Reason I ask is because I noticed a tally from Torpedoboot Wolf on eBay Germany a few weeks ago. Seller claimed it was pre-1935. But I was unsure and saw it go to somebody else (maybe someone from the forum??).
2dresq Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 (edited) My bottom two tallies are Reichsmarine. Before the Gothic script. Yes I saw the Torpedoboot wolf and the seller was correct, this was a pre Kriegsmarine and Reichsmarine period tally. Those are the only imperial tallies I have at the moment. I displayed them before I got too much involved with tallies. Now, it is my obsession. Gordon Williamson, one of the moderators of this forum has put together a tally script and grammar for the tallies. They can be tricky. The Kaiserliche Marine (Imperial) and the Reichsmarine (post WW1, pre WW2) both used latin script for their tallies as well as the later tallies in the Bundesmarine. The gothic script is Kriegsmarine period with exception to some possible post war Bundesmarine/Volksmarine tallies that held on to the gothic script before returning to the Latin Script tallies. He covers this quite well and is worth the look. The Torpedoboot Wolf is a correct example of a Reichsmarine period tally. So the Torpedoboot wolf had two tallies depending on the period of issue. Remember, the tallies were discontinued in 1939 and all went to the standard issue Kriegsmarine gothic script. The only ship that has a post war issued tally that is considered to be authentic is the Kreuzer Prinz Eugen. Hope that helps a bit. If you get a chance, there has been some wonderful topics recently covering the tallies/muetzenbands. Well worth the read. Regards, Justin 2dresq Edited December 31, 2009 by 2dresq
2dresq Posted December 31, 2009 Author Posted December 31, 2009 Fernando, The prices you paid for your tallies have been very fortunate. I paid over 500 for my Graf Spee. The Unterseeboot tallies are quite hard to come by as well. You have been doing very well. Regards, 2dresq
SICHERHEITSDIENTS Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Fernando, The prices you paid for your tallies have been very fortunate. I paid over 500 for my Graf Spee. The Unterseeboot tallies are quite hard to come by as well. You have been doing very well. Regards, 2dresq yes i know it,prices i paid for these tallies were very cheap and i was very lucky those days and had more money than present.... to buy these items fernando
Laurens Q Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Hello Justin, Thanks for the explanation. Just so I get it right, wasn't the one offered on eBay from the Imperial Navy? There was a Torpedoboot Wolf in the Imperial Navy (not the same as Wolf from the Reichsmarine/Kriegsmarine period). Seems difficult to distinguish one from Imperial vs one from the Reichsmarine if they are both in Latin script. Are you also referring to the topic from Gordon which is pinned in this sub-forum? Or have I missed something?Happy holidays,Laurens
Norm F Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Hello Justin, Thanks for the explanation. Just so I get it right, wasn't the one offered on eBay from the Imperial Navy? There was a Torpedoboot Wolf in the Imperial Navy (not the same as Wolf from the Reichsmarine/Kriegsmarine period). Seems difficult to distinguish one from Imperial vs one from the Reichsmarine if they are both in Latin script. Are you also referring to the topic from Gordon which is pinned in this sub-forum? Or have I missed something?Happy holidays,Laurens Hi Laurens, As far as I know, all the Imperial Navy Torpedoboote were unnamed - they had numbers only. The Torpedoboot Wolf was laid down, launched and commissioned in 1927-28 during the Reichsmarine era. http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/torpedoboats/torpedoboot1924/wolf/index.html Yes, Justin was referring to Gordon's pinned thread. To distinguish Imperial from Reichsmarine tallies it's best to look at the history of the named ship or unit. Best regards, ---Norm
Norm F Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Fernando, The prices you paid for your tallies have been very fortunate. I paid over 500 for my Graf Spee. The Unterseeboot tallies are quite hard to come by as well. You have been doing very well. Regards, 2dresq Just for clarity, Justin is talking U.S. dollars while Fernando is talking Euro. Wouldn't want people to think the going price for a Graf Spee is over 500 Euro unless someone is rich,desperate and impatient! Best regards, ---Norm
2dresq Posted January 1, 2010 Author Posted January 1, 2010 That is correct. I paid $550 USD for my Graf Spee. oOps! Thanks Norm! Regards, JustinG
Norm F Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 That is correct. I paid $550 USD for my Graf Spee. oOps! Thanks Norm! Regards, JustinG Which was still too much but it's easy to get caught up in those auctions! Happy New Year! ---Norm
Laurens Q Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 Hi Laurens, As far as I know, all the Imperial Navy Torpedoboote were unnamed - they had numbers only. The Torpedoboot Wolf was laid down, launched and commissioned in 1927-28 during the Reichsmarine era. http://www.german-na...wolf/index.html Yes, Justin was referring to Gordon's pinned thread. To distinguish Imperial from Reichsmarine tallies it's best to look at the history of the named ship or unit. Best regards, ---Norm Thanks Norm, Just realised I made an error in my earlier post, it should have been a comparison between Reichsmarine and Kriegsmarine . I have a picture-postcard where she is carrying the Imperial flag, but during the Reichsmarine era. Wolf was indeed used from '27 onwards. I just come to think that changing the cap tallies from latin script to gothic script, may have been in a time they changed the hull code (from 'WO' to 'WL'). Just a wild guess though... Laurens
2dresq Posted January 1, 2010 Author Posted January 1, 2010 This brings up a good point with value and what something is worth. This is a field that we all take an interest in. There are different reasons why we have chosen to pursue this hobby; something compels us to put a value on these items. There are several guesses when people are asking a question on what something costs. Looking at a Krimschild, the price was still on it and it was going for 1.60Reichsmarks. Now it goes for around 200-400USD. Why? It is demand, rarity, all these things factor in. Internet auctions are just like gambling, They can be very addictive. There are several people here that I know that get the thrill of the hunt for the items. Everything about this hobby is driven on demand and what people perceive the value to be. It would be interesting to see in an anonymous poll, what and why members collect.... Is it to pass on their collection to their future generations and pass on a love for a specific event, is it seen as a financial investment, is the reason unknown, is it for the social glory for having that ultra rare award and receiving recognition for such a prestigious or mint award? Who knows. The bottom line is, that as a collecting group, we set the prices, we have complete control of this. I always find it amazing to see a hunk of zinc in the shape of a SS skull fetch so much money or a Collar tab of the SS fetch so much as well. But, I think it was a bargain to find the Graf Spee. To each their own. Wonder what the future will hold. One would think that eventually, the market would peak and prices would remain pretty much leveled out from a point on. Could you really see a set of Oakleafs going for much more than what they can now. I couldn't? What is the estimated value, around 20K? Can it get higher? If the demand is there, and someone with the cash. Yes! Regards and Happy New Year! JustinG
Norm F Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) This brings up a good point with value and what something is worth. This is a field that we all take an interest in. There are different reasons why we have chosen to pursue this hobby; something compels us to put a value on these items. There are several guesses when people are asking a question on what something costs. Looking at a Krimschild, the price was still on it and it was going for 1.60Reichsmarks. Now it goes for around 200-400USD. Why? It is demand, rarity, all these things factor in. Internet auctions are just like gambling, They can be very addictive. There are several people here that I know that get the thrill of the hunt for the items. Everything about this hobby is driven on demand and what people perceive the value to be. It would be interesting to see in an anonymous poll, what and why members collect.... Is it to pass on their collection to their future generations and pass on a love for a specific event, is it seen as a financial investment, is the reason unknown, is it for the social glory for having that ultra rare award and receiving recognition for such a prestigious or mint award? Who knows. The bottom line is, that as a collecting group, we set the prices, we have complete control of this. I always find it amazing to see a hunk of zinc in the shape of a SS skull fetch so much money or a Collar tab of the SS fetch so much as well. But, I think it was a bargain to find the Graf Spee. To each their own. Wonder what the future will hold. One would think that eventually, the market would peak and prices would remain pretty much leveled out from a point on. Could you really see a set of Oakleafs going for much more than what they can now. I couldn't? What is the estimated value, around 20K? Can it get higher? If the demand is there, and someone with the cash. Yes! Regards and Happy New Year! JustinG Very interesting topic, Justin, and worthy of it's own thread. I too am amazed at the "value" of certain items. It's clear that the number of examples of an item originally produced does not always correlate with market value -- indeed often it's totally irrelevant. Sure oakleaves or minesweepers with diamonds, etc. are rare items, but the vast majority of KM items in trade were produced in abundance and the value is a virtual concept based on popularity, subject to the emotional breezes on the world-wibe web. We've talked before about how gold-coloured KM belt buckles produced in huge numbers go for ridiculously high prices compared with Heer and Luftwaffe buckles just because they're pretty and people covet and hoard them. Many rare things from earlier times, Weimar or Imperial, go for peanuts simply because there's not a current fad surrounding these items. On the Antique Road Show you hear experts talk about certain items, furniture, pottery, etc. and how they were worth more at certain times in the past when they're popularity was at it's height. Currently, WW2 has just the right combination of antiquity, yet immediacy with family ties, and drama and controversy to give the appeal to a wide range of collectors. I think it's possibly at it's peak of interest and it's conceivable this will fade over time as WW2 recedes into the past like WW1 and earlier pan-European wars. Meanwhile I'd wager that DDR items that currently are a dime a dozen will become much more valuable 40 years from now when people look back to what will seem a fascinating era of history with Germany being divided between east and west and the whole mystique of communist secrecy around East Germany. I think few collectors think in terms of investment and view their collections like a real estate or stock market investment - we're interested in the history of an item and the human stories around it. The "salty" items evoke a sense of the hardships of wartime experience and the mint items are like time machines giving us a view of how they looked to recipients at the time. There you go. Some musings for the New Year! Best regards, ---Norm Edited January 1, 2010 by Norm F
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