Navy Gold Wound Badge

[Erik Krogh]

I recently acquired this gold navy wound badge. It is of a different design than the silver one in my collection (also posted on this forum). I don't have any expertise in this area - is there a good reference book on Imperial wound badges? Would welcome your comments on the badge.

Best Regards,

Erik

[Erik Krogh]

Reverse

[saschaw]

Would not be anything for my collection...

:unsure:

[dond]

I agree with saschaw. The sword hilts are not German and the reverse set up not period.

[Erik Krogh]

Saschaw and Dond,

Thank you for your comments.

I'm not quite ready to give up on this one yet. It came out of a respected KM collection (Don Frailey). I know that coming out of a respected collection doesn't guarantee anything, but the odds are improved...

I also just saw a similar design attributed as a Type III badge as shown in William Hamelman's book "German Wound Badges". Does anyone have access to a copy of this book?

Thanks!

Erik

[Emanuel]

I have to say that I never saw a piece like yours and I do not like the device at all, Pin and catch are far from WW 1 pieces but the front also lack from the basic form.

Can you tell us also the price that you purchase it?It is vital as a seller will try to give it away in a 50% less price sometimes,its common this attitude you know..

Anyway,here are some pictures to compare:

Edited May 10, 2009 by Emanuel

[pegasus]

sorry dont like it, hope you can give it back.

pegasus

[Erik Krogh]

Emanuel and Pegasus,

Thank you both for weighing in on this piece.

I think that I may have solved the puzzle. I did a search on ebay.de and found a seller selling all three grades (black, silver, gold) of the exact same badge as mine. They are 57 versions (at least according to the eBay seller). I would not be surprised if this is correct. In any event, not WWI period.

I know the seller well and will return the badge.

Best Regards,

Erik

[Beau Newman]

For what it's worth, William Hamelman's book on German Wound Badges shows a "Type III" badge with this hilt design and a roughened rather than pebbled background. Having said that, I still don't like the whole pin set-up.

[Guest Rick Research]

Who is selling the Frailey collection, and where?

I hate to think of the last remaining Super Collection that will ever exist in North American being dribbled and drabbled on ebay or wherever when there were millions of dollars of museum quality items in Don's collection.

BTW-- no worries on your freakazoid badge.

It was made by Assmann, and appears as Item # 16686 in that circa 1937 catalog of theirs that was reprinted 40 years ago:

Definitely a 1930s era piece--at least from the front.

[Guest Rick Research]

So, everybody:

Now you'll Know One When You See One.

Arrrrrrrrr, shiver me timbers, me hearties! For 50 Pfennigs you expected QUALITY worksmanship?

This catalog apparently dated from 1937. There are the 1936 Wehrmacht long service awards in it, but not the cascade of civil and Party organization ones from the spring of 1938.

Time travel is wonderful--but it's a one way trip, so you have to have been there!

PS The reason the seller has all three classes is doubtless the same reason why I got a tea tin full of them on spec in the mail more than 35 years ago ($3.75 each, any class, as I recall) and foollishly only picked one...

the wretched things DID NOT SELL WAY BACK WHEN. Retailers, 1930s, WW2, who had stock... never had any CALL for them.

I've never seen any statistics on navy versus army wound badge numbers, but they were probably about on the magnitude of 1:5,000. In the navy, you were whole or you were dead, almost always. Virtually every navy wound badge we will ever see came out of some unsold Third Reich shop inventory. I can't imagine any NEED to have "M1957"'d any when there was all that surplus stock already sitting around gathering dust! :ninja:

[Erik Krogh]

Rick,

Once again, I am in your debt. Thanks for a fast reply with a tremendous amount of relevant information!

All The Best,

Erik

[saschaw]

I still do not like this one bagde, but thanks for pointing out that style DID exist in the 30s.

I neither like (at least) Emanuel's 2nd example. Those are frequently on eBay.de, offered by the same guy(s) selling dozens of FAKE clasps for China, South West Africa medal, Colonial medal and now even Kyffh?user medals... all "from old stock"...

:banger:

[dond]

Thanks Rick for the period documentation. Learning is good.

[Emanuel]

I still do not like this one bagde, but thanks for pointing out that style DID exist in the 30s.

I neither like (at least) Emanuel's 2nd example. Those are frequently on eBay.de, offered by the same guy(s) selling dozens of FAKE clasps for China, South West Africa medal, Colonial medal and now even Kyffh?user medals... all "from old stock"...

Hi there,

Well, not mine, I just pull them out from my Pic Data collection to show as I said the basic form of these badges.

I forgot if it's from Ebay.De, might be but for sure these NWB are too overpriced now to purhcase one and reckon Rick's stories that you could buy some 20 years ago for a few bucks a couple of them.

There were stores in Germany with not able to sell them to knowone,I don't know why, they are not ugly or something, maybe people didn't knew what they was for, no other explanation about this fenomenon back then....

[dond]

I've tried to match that reverse set up to a period Assman award and the closest I came was the catch on a 57er EK1.

[Erik Krogh]

I've tried to match that reverse set up to a period Assman award and the closest I came was the catch on a 57er EK1.

Don,

I think that you're right. It appears that the 57er awards used the same obverse design as shown in the Assman catalog, but the reverse setup is consistent with other 57 awards (wide pin, wide flat hook).

I have found several naval wound badges online with the same obverse design but a more-expected thin needle and hook reverse, which appear to be 1930s period. Also the background on these badges is "roughened rather than pebbled" as Beau noted.

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

Best Regards,

Erik

[Erik Krogh]

Don,

I think that you're right. It appears that the 57er awards used the same obverse design as shown in the Assman catalog, but the reverse setup is consistent with other 57 awards (wide pin, wide flat hook).

I have found several naval wound badges online with the same obverse design but a more-expected thin needle and hook reverse, which appear to be 1930s period. Also the background on these badges is "roughened rather than pebbled" as Beau noted.

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

Best Regards,

Erik

Here's an update: I purchased all three Naval Wound badges sold as 57er's on eBay.de. Here they are

[Erik Krogh]

Reverse of 57er badges

[Claudius]

Thanks Erik for falling on these "swords" in order to show us clearly 57er's obverse and reverses. Hope they didn't set you back too much.

[speedytop]

Hi,

Start

Erik: "They are 57 versions"

Erik: "57er badges"

57er badges from WWI decorations?

Rick: "reprinted 40 years ago"

Don: "the closest I came was the catch on a 57er EK1"

Erik:

"57 awards"

These decorations (57 versions) were not awarded, not issued, not re-issued.

There was only the allowance to produce, to sell, to buy and to wear these decorations:

http://www.ordensmuseum.de/Ordensjournal/O...16Jan0857er.pdf

End

Uwe

[Erik Krogh]

Hi,

Start

Erik: "They are 57 versions"

Erik: "57er badges"

57er badges from WWI decorations?

Rick: "reprinted 40 years ago"

Don: "the closest I came was the catch on a 57er EK1"

Erik:

"57 awards"

These decorations (57 versions) were not awarded, not issued, not re-issued.

There was only the allowance to produce, to sell, to buy and to wear these decorations:

http://www.ordensmuseum.de/Ordensjournal/O...16Jan0857er.pdf

End

Uwe

Thank you. Uwe.

I didn't mean to get "off topic" - I originally wanted to understand whether the WWI Gold Wound Badge I had bought was authentic.

Sooooo... Rick seems to think that these are genuine period, Uwe has pointed out that they were not reissued in 57.... What is the consensus on these three badges which all have the same reverse hardware?

Best Regards,

Erik

[dond]

I still think those reverse setups sre from a later period, say post 45ish. Here is an interesting one I picked up as a repro. Seems everyone thinks the Assmann design = repro. It has a much different reverse set up and shows honest wear.

Thoughts?