Robin Lumsden Posted January 5, 2010 Author Posted January 5, 2010 Minenwerfer-Totenkopf connection that keeps popping up. Thanks Thomas. This brings us full circle to the start of this thread!
dond Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 Robin, you already had the skull/minenwerfer connection via your henschel badge.
Robin Lumsden Posted January 6, 2010 Author Posted January 6, 2010 Robin, you already had the skull/minenwerfer connection via your henschel badge. Don. My mind and memory are shadows of what they once were! :speechless:
dond Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 Beautiful badge. Too bad real ones never come up for sale.
Thomas W Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 Beautiful badge. Too bad real ones never come up for sale. I got one I'm willing to sell or trade for photos of WWI flamethrower troops from any nation.
Robin Lumsden Posted January 7, 2010 Author Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Beautiful badge. Too bad real ones never come up for sale. This is the only contemporary photo I know of showing a Heuschkel badge in any detail. It's from the von Salomon Freikorps book, dating to the 1930s. Edited January 7, 2010 by Robin Lumsden
Robin Lumsden Posted January 7, 2010 Author Posted January 7, 2010 And, on the subject of Heuschkel.............
Thomas W Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 I've posted a closeup of this image before, but here's the full photo of a former flamethrower pioneer (standing) who was a member of Minenwerfer-Detachment-Heuschkel when this photo was taken. Interestingly, the kneeling man with the mustache on the right is also a former flamethrower pioneer, reinforcing the Flammenwerfer-Minenwerfer-Totenkopf relationship.
Thomas W Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 Here's the mustached man when he was a member of the III. Garde-Pionier-Bataillon during the war. I wonder why Minenwerfer-Detachment-Heuschkel had so many former flamethrower pioneers? It could be because the commander was a former member of Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 29, which worked with Bernhard Reddemann on flamethrower development before the war and was the first German unit to use flamethrowers in combat. Maybe Heuschkel knew a lot of these flamethrower pioneers personally and recruited them into his Freikorps after the war...
Robin Lumsden Posted January 8, 2010 Author Posted January 8, 2010 Very interesting, Thomas. I have learned a lot from this thread. :cheers:
Sergeant 08 Posted February 27, 2010 Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) Thomas! I thought, that you could be interested to see this photo.... Edited February 27, 2010 by Sergeant 08
Chris Boonzaier Posted February 27, 2010 Posted February 27, 2010 As this has turned into a mega rocka-rolla thread with fingers in every pie, I took the liberty of adjusting the title to show the scope of it all...
Robin Lumsden Posted February 27, 2010 Author Posted February 27, 2010 As this has turned into a mega rocka-rolla thread with fingers in every pie, I took the liberty of adjusting the title to show the scope of it all... Good move! So that means the black TK that started it all is definitely flammenwerfer, after all! :cheers:
Thomas W Posted February 27, 2010 Posted February 27, 2010 Thomas! I thought, that you could be interested to see this photo.... That's a French Schilt No. 2 flamethrower. The poor men who used it had to carry it into battle using that wooden frame. The lance had no trigger or valve, so the way it was used was that the men carrying it had put it down on the ground. One man would throw incendiary grenades at the target, and then the second man would open the valve on the oil tank so that the lance operator could spray the oil at the flaming grenades. A second ignition method was to put small fuses on the end of the lance, but these only lasted for five seconds. This was a terrible weapon. In 1916 the French wisely changed the designation from "portable" to static, thus sparing the lives of the men who were assigned to use it.
Chris Boonzaier Posted February 27, 2010 Posted February 27, 2010 Good move! So that means the black TK that started it all is definitely flammenwerfer, after all! "... and stuff" ;-)
Sergeant 08 Posted February 27, 2010 Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) So that means the black TK that started it all is definitely flammenwerfer, after all! Correct! PS: The period photo will appear. Edited February 27, 2010 by Sergeant 08
Robin Lumsden Posted February 28, 2010 Author Posted February 28, 2010 Correct! PS: The period photo will appear. Jawohl! Keep the faith, brother. We will prove these non-believers wrong...........eventually! :cheeky:
Robin Lumsden Posted February 28, 2010 Author Posted February 28, 2010 PS - Still only two of these blackies have ever appeared on the market.............not the 'deluge' that was expected. Both from the same source. Being serious (again) for a brief moment, the workmanship and age on the black skull I have (yours will be the same, Stefan), is such that I am totally convinced that it is a period original. And I often take some convincing, I can assure you. :cheeky:
Sergeant 08 Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 PS - Still only two of these blackies have ever appeared on the market.............not the 'deluge' that was expected. Both from the same source. The only other black skull which I have seen during last months is that one.
Chris Boonzaier Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 PS - Still only two of these blackies have ever appeared on the market.............not the 'deluge' that was expected. Both from the same source. Being serious (again) for a brief moment, the workmanship and age on the black skull I have (yours will be the same, Stefan), is such that I am totally convinced that it is a period original. And I often take some convincing, I can assure you. Hi The theory that a fake always comes in bunches hold water when a mould or die is made...the faker can chug out badge after badge... when someone has to do everything by hand (like in this case) the person making them can do one.... or two.... or more... or not.... Basically it is like "print on demand", I never expected a deluge... maybe the maker calculated the effort needed and what he got for them.. then stopped after 2. Workmanship did not die in 1918... everytime I am in Norhtern Ontario I visit an old lady who belongs to a patchwork circle... a bunch of old ladies who sit around doinf neddlework... any one of them makes stuff more complicated than this. material... no problem. A faker does not have to MAKE cloth... old cloth can be found at any flea market. I think this is an interesting piece, but if its good or not will be left to each to decide if he believes it or not. I am also not convinced by the black and white photos... it is all guesswork and supposing one ma be a different color. The argument has been used on the forums that one cannot tell how many german helmets were cammo in 1918 because black and white hides the shades... if that is so.. then a small badge is even harder!! There may be a proof out there that this is real, I will be the first to admit it IF it happens... but the above arguments dont swing it for me ;-)
Sergeant 08 Posted March 4, 2010 Posted March 4, 2010 (edited) Workmanship did not die in 1918... everytime I am in Norhtern Ontario I visit an old lady who belongs to a patchwork circle... a bunch of old ladies who sit around doinf neddlework... any one of them makes stuff more complicated than this. We all know the dark skills of grannies! Handmade items. You can produce everything with the right materials and a grandmother. That is correct. In most cases you can never be sure, that handmade items are 100% real. PS: The black skulls are not the only handmade items in collections out there........ Edited March 4, 2010 by Sergeant 08
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