Heer museum restored SS VT helmet

[Avitas]

Hello gents,

I have recently bought this helmet that I can return if it is found to be an unoriginal version. I know these facts: the decals are said to be museum restored ones so they are definitely post war made to look like an SS-VT helmet, but I was wondering if the shell or liner could confirm it as either and SS helmet or at least an original civic model Polizei helmet. The liner and the helmet itself are what I am curious about. I have been unable to find an exact match (close!) for this liner so I am feeling a bit uneasy about it. The helmet looks to be an original polizei repaint to me. As for markings the helmet is stamped "DIN 14940 Q" ,a code I have seen on originals, on the steel back brim and the liner is stamped "????? 1938 S.S." on one of the 9 fingers and "RO78" on the inside of the same finger. I bought it as an original helmet that had been redone so if that is the case I am satisfied, but if it is a fake shell or liner please let me know so I can return it ASAP.

Thanks for any helmet advice!

Edited June 3, 2009 by Avitas

[Avitas]

Here is a close-up of the decal...

[Avitas]

Here are some shots of the liner in question..

[Avitas]

another of the stamp on the finger..

[Avitas]

and finally another shot of the stamp. I can get more pics if needed. I forgot to mention it is a Polizei unit helmet (Interrogation Unit I was told) as it has the salt and pepper type vents (Polizei "civic curved dip" style mentioned on German-Helmets.com and extra sweat holes on the front end of the liner. Any help is greatly appreciated as I can still bring it back if it is a repro.

Cheers and thanks in advance!

Pat

Edited June 3, 2009 by Avitas

[Gordon Craig]

Avitas,

I can not advise you as to the authenticity of this as a reproduction of a WWII helmet but I would suggest that you acquire some books on this subject. Specifically the three volume set by Ludwig Baer. You may want to look in his book 'Von Metalhelm zum Kunstoffhelm" which is Volume III and read page 129.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited June 4, 2009 by Gordon Craig

[Avitas]

Thanks Gordon,

Can you let me know what it says on page 129? I am always looking for good reference books but they are not always easy to come by. Like I said, I think it is an original polizei shell and liner with post-war decals, so if you have any light to shed anything is appreciated. Hopefully someone knowledgeable in these helmets will stumble upon this thread. I can still return it so any and all help would be appreciated.

Pat

[peter monahan]

Thanks Gordon,

Can you let me know what it says on page 129? I am always looking for good reference books but they are not always easy to come by. Like I said, I think it is an original polizei shell and liner with post-war decals, so if you have any light to shed anything is appreciated. Hopefully someone knowledgeable in these helmets will stumble upon this thread. I can still return it so any and all help would be appreciated.

Pat

Pat

I can't vouch for their expertise - I know zero about SS stuff, but others may wish to comment - but there is "the other site", which is specifically for Wehrmacht and SS gear. Have you considered posting yr query there? [Wermacht-Awards.com]

Peter

[Naxos]

The VT did not use this kind of helmet

It is a M-34 (curved dip with salt shaker vents) civic helmet - these helmets were used by German Fire-Departments and Police.

Fire-Departments and Police were under the control of the SS.

Is it a light weight or full weight? (light weight helmets are lighter then the regular army helmets)

Are there remnants left of leathers for a neck flap? Some M-34 had no neck flap attachements build in the liner.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2009/post-1062-1244122035.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2009/post-1062-1244124367.jpg

Edited June 4, 2009 by Naxos

[Avitas]

Thanks for the replies,

To answer the questions, it is a lightweight helmet and I can't see any remnants of the neck guard. So if the Police and Fire departments were under SS control would that explain the SS markings on the liner? Hopefully someone knows the answer, and I try to stay away from the other forum as i prefer this site.

Thanks again,

Pat

[Naxos]

Thanks for the replies,

To answer the questions, it is a lightweight helmet and I can't see any remnants of the neck guard. So if the Police and Fire departments were under SS control would that explain the SS markings on the liner? Hopefully someone knows the answer, and I try to stay away from the other forum as i prefer this site.

Thanks again,

Pat

No Pat, the SS letters stamped in the liner have nothing to do with the http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2009/post-1062-1244134945.jpg.

This type of helmet was worn by the German voluntary fire departments until the 80s, without the original decals it is of little value.

[Avitas]

Thanks Naxos,

So I guess the question is, HOW little value is it worth. I paid 250 USD for it, which is probably too high, so if anyone could give me an approx. value I can then decide whether to return it or not (PM me if you are uncomfortable giving an estimate in public). I bought it for a nice display piece with original period use (not by the SS, but by the polizei), and I know helmets are usually much more than $250.

Thanks for all the help!

Pat

[Naxos]

Here, one like yours being sold without a liner:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Alter-schwarzer-Stahl-F...%3A1%7C294%3A50

Here is another one with a nice period liner:

http://cgi.ebay.de/FEUERWEHRHELM_W0QQitemZ...%3A1%7C294%3A50

Here is one offered with liner for under 30 euros:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Konvolut-Feuerwehr-Helm...%3A1%7C294%3A50

[Chris Boonzaier]

I think the SS stamps look a little fishy... unless it is "Size: Small" ;-)

[Avitas]

Thanks for all the help, contacted seller and I'm taking it back tomorrow. Hugely appreciated!!!

Pat

[Gordon Craig]

Avitas,

Glad to see that you have decided to return the helmet. As you have seen from the posts above there is nothing even remotely correct about this helmet. My comment about page 129 refers to the date when helmets marked with DIN codes were first produced which is 1954. German helmets made during the war were never marked with DIN codes. I think that my first comment about buying good reference books would be the best thing for you to do before trying to buy another German WWII helmet.

Regards,

Gordon

[Avitas]

Hello Gents,

Thanks for all the help, for entry-level collectors like myself I really do appreciate the help (and if anyone knows of a good source of militaria books in Canada or who ships to Canada please let me know!) All this information helps people like me learn on the way to building a collection, and emphasizes how great it is to have a community that would like to maintain the honour of the hobby. Also to always buy from someone that will guarantee their merchandise. Speaking of which I returned this helmet and got full credit towards a Prussian ww1 Pickehaube (check it out in the Imperial Uniforms forum). Thanks again and case closed!

Pat

Edited June 6, 2009 by Avitas