Soviet Researching my Russian Awards

[deptfordboy]

Evening Gents,

After lots of 'lurking' and in this corner of the forum, I have decided to make the step of learning more about the stories behind some of the Russian medals I have collected. I must admit, I started picking them up from an aesthetic point of view, they are so nice looking (must be a 'bling' streak in me )

Anyway, now I have built up a few modest pieces, I wanted to ask the advice of yourselves as to which of these might produce the most interesting results research-wise? It doesn't make sense money-wise to research them all, so a 'top 3' recommendations would be most helpful as a starting point. They are as follows:

OGPW 2nd Class #815628

OGPW 1st Class #130658

Medal for Combat Service #5055

Order Red Star #818952

Order Red Star #1865385

Order of Glory 3rd Class #677891

Order of Badge of Honour #128359

Order for Service to the Homeland in the Soviet Armed Forces, 3rd class, #123167

Cheers,

Gilbert

[Guest Rick Research]

OGPW 2nd Class #815628 = 1945-48

OGPW 1st Class #130658 = February 1945

Medal for Combat Service #5055 = March 1940 or earlier!!

Order Red Star #818952 = August-November 1944

Order Red Star #1865385 = about August 1945

Order of Glory 3rd Class #677891 = about March 1953 (delayed)

Order of Badge of Honour #128359

Order for Service to the Homeland in the Soviet Armed Forces, 3rd class, #123167

I would say

1) MMM #5055 because those really meat something then, and who knows what else that early recipient got

2 ) OPW1 #130,658

after that "you never know" anyway. Can't do the Badge of Honor, and I gather that late an OSH3 might have been unissued.

[Christophe]

OGPW 2nd Class #815628 = 1945-48

OGPW 1st Class #130658 = February 1945

Medal for Combat Service #5055 = March 1940 or earlier!!

Order Red Star #818952 = August-November 1944

Order Red Star #1865385 = about August 1945

Order of Glory 3rd Class #677891 = about March 1953 (delayed)

Order of Badge of Honour #128359

Order for Service to the Homeland in the Soviet Armed Forces, 3rd class, #123167

I would say

1) MMM #5055 because those really meat something then, and who knows what else that early recipient got

2 ) OPW1 #130,658

after that "you never know" anyway. Can't do the Badge of Honor, and I gather that late an OSH3 might have been unissued.

Rick,

How can you do THIS in 6 minutes ? , and .

Cheers.

Ch.

[Danny]

1) MMM #5055 because those really meat something then, and who knows what else that early recipient got

2 ) OPW1 #130,658

after that "you never know" anyway. Can't do the Badge of Honor, and I gather that late an OSH3 might have been unissued.

Agreed. Plus I would add

Order of Glory 3rd Class #677891

Always well worth the research.

[NavyFCO]

Well, I've researched a few hundred awards, so here's my opinion...

OGPW 2nd Class #815628 ... I'd research this one fifth

OGPW 1st Class #130658 ... Research this one first

Medal for Combat Service #5055 ... Too early to research

Order Red Star #818952 ... Might not be bad for a third or fourth

Order Red Star #1865385 ... Research this one third, though there's a large chance it could be for long service.

Order of Glory 3rd Class #677891 ... Research this one second, though I can just about guarantee that it's for wounds.

Order of Badge of Honour #128359 ... unresearchable w/o order book

Order for Service to the Homeland in the Soviet Armed Forces, 3rd class, #123167 ... unresearchable

If you're looking for a combat valor citation, you have a good probability of not finding it amongst these, unfortunately. But then again... research is always worth the gamble to me!

Dave

[deptfordboy]

Many thanks for your input Guys,

Just to clarify, as a rule of thumb which types of orders are unresearchable without the accompanying book?

Dave, that's a shame if I can't research the Military Merit, as it's a nice low number. Is this due to records not being kept that early?

Finally, do you have any recommedations as to who I should get to do the research?

Cheers

Gilbert

[NavyFCO]

Many thanks for your input Guys,

Just to clarify, as a rule of thumb which types of orders are unresearchable without the accompanying book?

Dave, that's a shame if I can't research the Military Merit, as it's a nice low number. Is this due to records not being kept that early?

Finally, do you have any recommedations as to who I should get to do the research?

Cheers

Gilbert

To answer your questions...

Labor Orders are researchable. BUT, you need to have the order book with them that lists the Ukaz. The Ukaz can be found and photocopied, and that will sometimes give you an idea of what the award was awarded for. Also, there were several newspapers that listed all award recipients and would have a small blurb about what the awards for for at the top of the list. Sometimes, the researcher can even find a few other newspaper clippings regarding the award. Unfortunately, without an order book, there's no way of researching just a plain, single labor award.

For all military awards, you don't have to have an order book.

Awards given out prior to WW2 are very difficult to research unless the person had WW2 service. Very few of these records are kept in Padolsk, so it's hit-or-miss - and mostly miss especially on the lower awards.

There's actually only one person who does the research - I'll PM you his name and contact info.

Good luck!

Dave

[deptfordboy]

Quick update on this: a number of the researchable medals are currently being worked on. Many thanks to Dave for his help. Will let you know the results when they come in.

Cheers

Gilbert

[order_of_victory]

Just reading through the pointers for reaserching Soviet Orders with Award books, got me wondering how easy is it to research a Order of the October Revolution

[deptfordboy]

Morning Gents,

A quick update on this - apparently the research has been done and all the medals were a 'hit' with exception of the MM#5055.

Apparently the OGPW2 was to a KIA, burned alive in a tank - sounds like a sad tale behind that one. Once I get the research I will be sure to share here.

Cheers

Gilbert

[Gerd Becker]

Hi Gilbert,

that are great results. KIA-awards are very sought after. I think, Dave will like it

I?ll get some research too.

best

Gerd

[NavyFCO]

Apparently the OGPW2 was to a KIA, burned alive in a tank - sounds like a sad tale behind that one. Once I get the research I will be sure to share here.

Ooooh!!!! My checkbook is out and open.........

Dave

[deptfordboy]

Thanks Guys,

Ok, here comes the 'newbie' question: Is there anything in particular which makes a Russian medal desirable because it is for a KIA?

What I mean is, whilst I can understand why a Brit medal to a KIA is more valuable, because there is more research potential and details available via the CWGC, is there a similar situation with Russian soldiers KIA?

Cheers

Gilbert

Edited May 24, 2006 by deptfordboy

[NavyFCO]

Ok, here comes the 'newbie' question: Is there anything in particular which makes a Russian medal desirable because it is for a KIA?

What I mean is, whilst I can understand why a Brit medal to a KIA is more valuable, because there is more research potential and details available via the CWGC, is there a similar situation with Russian soldiers KIA?

It's desireable because it's extremely unusual. Soviet families often not notified till years later that their loved ones were killed during the War. Sometimes, they were never notified at all (that was a well-flogged benefit of being a member of the CPSU - they would guarantee the soldiers that if they died their families would be notified!) And all that was just to send a small slip of paper to the family to tell them that their father/husband/son/daughter/wife was killed in action.

With the majority of the USSR overrun by the Germans, countless towns and villages destroyed, hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of civilian "non-combattant" casualties, the USSR was a mess during the War with regard to finding people - thus the reason that death notifications often took years to find the family, even if they ever did.

Now imagine this... Someone is killed in action, and it's tough for the unit to get a slip of paper to the family. In order to award a decoration to someone posthumously, they have to not only do all the admin work to get the award approved, but then they have to send it via courier to the family; tracking the family down, risking his/her life, etc... Thus, when someone was awarded a posthumous award, that means that they did something really special, that was unusual enough to warrant all of the trouble by the command to make sure they received an award.

As far as being unusual, I know of five OGPW1 that were awarded posthumously, and two OGPW2 that were awarded posthumously. I own all five OGPW1, you own one of the OGPW2, and the other OGPW2 was sold in the late-90s and I have no idea where it is. As far as the five posthumous OGPW1 that I own, they include awards to:

- Commander of Artillery for the Latvian Rifle Corps (killed in an artillery barrage, ironically. I also have all of his son's medals from the War)

- A self-propelled artillery officer who led a charge into retreating Germans and was killed during the charge

- A self-propelled artillery officer who led a charge on foot into a German-held strongpoint

- A self-propelled artillery private who fired into attacking Germans until he was overrun

- The fifth research is enroute (any bets that he was artillery????)

Only two of these awards have their original temporary documents that were awarded with the decoration to the family, the rest were all discovered through researching lots and lots of awards....

Other than Soviet awards to Americans, this is the other area that I "specialize" in, and are the "keepers" in my collection (yes, Rick Research, I DO actually keep something in my collection!) So, as you can imagine, I'm willing to pay just about anything to acquire new ones for the collection.

Dave

[deptfordboy]

Thanks for that Dave, really informative as ever. Wow, that sounds exciting, seems I had a lucky first 'dip' into researching these! I will share the detailed info on these medals when I get it in.

Cheers

Gilbert

[Guest Alanirvine]

Dave, just sent you a PM.

Alan

[deptfordboy]

The scans and first translations are now in for the OGPW2 to the KIA chap for those interested - posted in the relevant section.

Cheers

Gilbert

Edited June 14, 2006 by deptfordboy