deptfordboy Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Evening Gents, After lots of 'lurking' and in this corner of the forum, I have decided to make the step of learning more about the stories behind some of the Russian medals I have collected. I must admit, I started picking them up from an aesthetic point of view, they are so nice looking (must be a 'bling' streak in me )Anyway, now I have built up a few modest pieces, I wanted to ask the advice of yourselves as to which of these might produce the most interesting results research-wise? It doesn't make sense money-wise to research them all, so a 'top 3' recommendations would be most helpful as a starting point. They are as follows: OGPW 2nd Class #815628OGPW 1st Class #130658Medal for Combat Service #5055Order Red Star #818952Order Red Star #1865385Order of Glory 3rd Class #677891Order of Badge of Honour #128359Order for Service to the Homeland in the Soviet Armed Forces, 3rd class, #123167Cheers, Gilbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 OGPW 2nd Class #815628 = 1945-48OGPW 1st Class #130658 = February 1945Medal for Combat Service #5055 = March 1940 or earlier!!Order Red Star #818952 = August-November 1944Order Red Star #1865385 = about August 1945Order of Glory 3rd Class #677891 = about March 1953 (delayed)Order of Badge of Honour #128359Order for Service to the Homeland in the Soviet Armed Forces, 3rd class, #123167I would say1) MMM #5055 because those really meat something then, and who knows what else that early recipient got2 ) OPW1 #130,658after that "you never know" anyway. Can't do the Badge of Honor, and I gather that late an OSH3 might have been unissued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 OGPW 2nd Class #815628 = 1945-48OGPW 1st Class #130658 = February 1945Medal for Combat Service #5055 = March 1940 or earlier!!Order Red Star #818952 = August-November 1944Order Red Star #1865385 = about August 1945Order of Glory 3rd Class #677891 = about March 1953 (delayed)Order of Badge of Honour #128359Order for Service to the Homeland in the Soviet Armed Forces, 3rd class, #123167I would say1) MMM #5055 because those really meat something then, and who knows what else that early recipient got2 ) OPW1 #130,658after that "you never know" anyway. Can't do the Badge of Honor, and I gather that late an OSH3 might have been unissued.Rick,How can you do THIS in 6 minutes ? , and . Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 1) MMM #5055 because those really meat something then, and who knows what else that early recipient got2 ) OPW1 #130,658after that "you never know" anyway. Can't do the Badge of Honor, and I gather that late an OSH3 might have been unissued.Agreed. Plus I would addOrder of Glory 3rd Class #677891Always well worth the research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyFCO Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Well, I've researched a few hundred awards, so here's my opinion...OGPW 2nd Class #815628 ... I'd research this one fifthOGPW 1st Class #130658 ... Research this one firstMedal for Combat Service #5055 ... Too early to researchOrder Red Star #818952 ... Might not be bad for a third or fourthOrder Red Star #1865385 ... Research this one third, though there's a large chance it could be for long service.Order of Glory 3rd Class #677891 ... Research this one second, though I can just about guarantee that it's for wounds. Order of Badge of Honour #128359 ... unresearchable w/o order bookOrder for Service to the Homeland in the Soviet Armed Forces, 3rd class, #123167 ... unresearchableIf you're looking for a combat valor citation, you have a good probability of not finding it amongst these, unfortunately. But then again... research is always worth the gamble to me!Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deptfordboy Posted December 1, 2005 Author Share Posted December 1, 2005 Many thanks for your input Guys, Just to clarify, as a rule of thumb which types of orders are unresearchable without the accompanying book?Dave, that's a shame if I can't research the Military Merit, as it's a nice low number. Is this due to records not being kept that early? Finally, do you have any recommedations as to who I should get to do the research?Cheers Gilbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyFCO Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Many thanks for your input Guys, Just to clarify, as a rule of thumb which types of orders are unresearchable without the accompanying book?Dave, that's a shame if I can't research the Military Merit, as it's a nice low number. Is this due to records not being kept that early? Finally, do you have any recommedations as to who I should get to do the research?Cheers GilbertTo answer your questions... Labor Orders are researchable. BUT, you need to have the order book with them that lists the Ukaz. The Ukaz can be found and photocopied, and that will sometimes give you an idea of what the award was awarded for. Also, there were several newspapers that listed all award recipients and would have a small blurb about what the awards for for at the top of the list. Sometimes, the researcher can even find a few other newspaper clippings regarding the award. Unfortunately, without an order book, there's no way of researching just a plain, single labor award. For all military awards, you don't have to have an order book.Awards given out prior to WW2 are very difficult to research unless the person had WW2 service. Very few of these records are kept in Padolsk, so it's hit-or-miss - and mostly miss especially on the lower awards.There's actually only one person who does the research - I'll PM you his name and contact info.Good luck!Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deptfordboy Posted February 24, 2006 Author Share Posted February 24, 2006 Quick update on this: a number of the researchable medals are currently being worked on. Many thanks to Dave for his help. Will let you know the results when they come in.Cheers Gilbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
order_of_victory Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Just reading through the pointers for reaserching Soviet Orders with Award books, got me wondering how easy is it to research a Order of the October Revolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deptfordboy Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 Morning Gents, A quick update on this - apparently the research has been done and all the medals were a 'hit' with exception of the MM#5055. Apparently the OGPW2 was to a KIA, burned alive in a tank - sounds like a sad tale behind that one. Once I get the research I will be sure to share here. Cheers Gilbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Hi Gilbert,that are great results. KIA-awards are very sought after. I think, Dave will like it I?ll get some research too. bestGerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyFCO Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Apparently the OGPW2 was to a KIA, burned alive in a tank - sounds like a sad tale behind that one. Once I get the research I will be sure to share here. Ooooh!!!! My checkbook is out and open......... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deptfordboy Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) Thanks Guys, Ok, here comes the 'newbie' question: Is there anything in particular which makes a Russian medal desirable because it is for a KIA? What I mean is, whilst I can understand why a Brit medal to a KIA is more valuable, because there is more research potential and details available via the CWGC, is there a similar situation with Russian soldiers KIA? Cheers Gilbert Edited May 24, 2006 by deptfordboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyFCO Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Ok, here comes the 'newbie' question: Is there anything in particular which makes a Russian medal desirable because it is for a KIA? What I mean is, whilst I can understand why a Brit medal to a KIA is more valuable, because there is more research potential and details available via the CWGC, is there a similar situation with Russian soldiers KIA? It's desireable because it's extremely unusual. Soviet families often not notified till years later that their loved ones were killed during the War. Sometimes, they were never notified at all (that was a well-flogged benefit of being a member of the CPSU - they would guarantee the soldiers that if they died their families would be notified!) And all that was just to send a small slip of paper to the family to tell them that their father/husband/son/daughter/wife was killed in action. With the majority of the USSR overrun by the Germans, countless towns and villages destroyed, hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of civilian "non-combattant" casualties, the USSR was a mess during the War with regard to finding people - thus the reason that death notifications often took years to find the family, even if they ever did. Now imagine this... Someone is killed in action, and it's tough for the unit to get a slip of paper to the family. In order to award a decoration to someone posthumously, they have to not only do all the admin work to get the award approved, but then they have to send it via courier to the family; tracking the family down, risking his/her life, etc... Thus, when someone was awarded a posthumous award, that means that they did something really special, that was unusual enough to warrant all of the trouble by the command to make sure they received an award.As far as being unusual, I know of five OGPW1 that were awarded posthumously, and two OGPW2 that were awarded posthumously. I own all five OGPW1, you own one of the OGPW2, and the other OGPW2 was sold in the late-90s and I have no idea where it is. As far as the five posthumous OGPW1 that I own, they include awards to:- Commander of Artillery for the Latvian Rifle Corps (killed in an artillery barrage, ironically. I also have all of his son's medals from the War)- A self-propelled artillery officer who led a charge into retreating Germans and was killed during the charge- A self-propelled artillery officer who led a charge on foot into a German-held strongpoint- A self-propelled artillery private who fired into attacking Germans until he was overrun- The fifth research is enroute (any bets that he was artillery????) Only two of these awards have their original temporary documents that were awarded with the decoration to the family, the rest were all discovered through researching lots and lots of awards.... Other than Soviet awards to Americans, this is the other area that I "specialize" in, and are the "keepers" in my collection (yes, Rick Research, I DO actually keep something in my collection!) So, as you can imagine, I'm willing to pay just about anything to acquire new ones for the collection. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deptfordboy Posted May 26, 2006 Author Share Posted May 26, 2006 Thanks for that Dave, really informative as ever. Wow, that sounds exciting, seems I had a lucky first 'dip' into researching these! I will share the detailed info on these medals when I get it in. Cheers Gilbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alanirvine Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 Dave, just sent you a PM.Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deptfordboy Posted June 14, 2006 Author Share Posted June 14, 2006 (edited) The scans and first translations are now in for the OGPW2 to the KIA chap for those interested - posted in the relevant section. Cheers Gilbert Edited June 14, 2006 by deptfordboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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