France WWI Victory medal

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

This looks good to me and assuming it's just a normal WWI Victory medal. But wanted to confirm as the owner thinks it might be bad for some reason. So I leave it to the experts.

[Hauptmann]

Many thanks!

Dan :cheers:

[TacHel]

That's a fine period ribbon.

The signature and hallmarks are there.

The design is correct.

The suspension is correct.

The patina isn't the greatest... Looks like somebody plated this medal after it was already well worn. Which sometimes denotes a copy... Sometimes. I can't see why somebody would copy a medal issued by the millions...

Or it this due to the fact you used an Epson?

Sorry... ;)

Edited July 1, 2009 by TacHel

[Bison]

I can hardly imagine that such a common medal (French 'Morlon' model) could be copied...

The point is this medal was made by different manufacturers. Therefore, quality is sometimes different.

The medal shown by Hauptman is made by La Monnaie de Paris.

Here is another 'Morlon' model but made by another manufacturer. The hallmarks on the reverse at 06:00 are different (triangle - BR). quality is also different.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_07_2009/post-2068-1246814471.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_07_2009/post-2068-1246813897.jpg

Regards

Bison

Edited July 5, 2009 by Bison

[Tim B]

Appears to be a few different maker's marks on the French medals. I have see a couple different stamps with the triangle or pyramid shape stamp. Usually the one most common is stamped with a "J" "B" with what appears to be a cross in between the letters. Have also seen one that looks like a P & L. Here's some shots of what I have seen, not the best PICS but the marks are tiny to begin with. And of course the one on the bottom is the Paris mint mark (Monnaie de Paris) with the BR standing for Bronze.

Tim

[Tim B]

Bison,

What I have noticed are the ones with the triangular maker's marks do have a stronger strike than the typical Monnaie de Paris pieces and over time I think the condition has held up to wear better. This is apparent whether its a commemorative medal, combattant cross, or in this case, the victory medals.

Tim

[RobW]

Hello Tim & Bison,

Here is a close-up comparison of two of the official French vics in my collection showing the two different mintmarks.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Hi Rob,

Yes, the most common ones I believe. The Paris Mint mark (Monnaie de Paris) is that cornucopia. The pyramid shape I can't make out but assume its one of the two posted above. "BR" is simply the stamp for bronze in both cases, which was common back then.

Tim

[Bison]

Hi Tim, Rob and everyone interested in this topic,

"P" [lightning] "L" stands for "Paul Lecl?re", "J"[cross]"B" stands for "Janvier - Berchot".

Both are medals manufacturers in the 20's.

It is funny to note that "LECLERE" is pronounced in French "L'ECLAIR" which means "Lightning"...

Bison

[Tim B]

Bison,

Thanks, that's good information! I remember somewhere that Angles & Pattard and another name was brought up as well and I couldn't figure out the lettering matching up with the manufacturer's name.

Tim

[RobW]

To all,

Just to confuse the issue I recently obtained this official French vic and it does appear to not have any marks, either cornucopia, triangle, or BR on the reverse. Is it possible that another manufacturer produced this based on the official dies? The only other difference I have noticed is that the makers mark is a bit further from the edge of the rim than that seen on other varieties.

Any ideas??

Regards,

Rob

Edited August 5, 2009 by RobW

[RobW]

To all,

Here is one of my latest acquisitions. It is identified by Mr Laslo's victory medal reference book as the French unofficial type 2a 'uniface' variety. This item is not often seen.

The item is 36.5 mm in diameter. There are no edge markings or BRONZE on the rim.

Regards,

Rob

Edited September 1, 2009 by RobW

[Chris Boonzaier]

There seems to have been a large market in France for uniface medals because tens or hundreds of thousands of vets had their medals mounted in Frames with big service certificates. Often this was a second set of medals while the originals were kept to be worn. To make the mounting in the frame under glass easier the backs of the medals were sometimes removed (eg. on the CDG).

I assume the uniface were easier to mount and were often used in frames..

Best

Chris

[RobW]

There seems to have been a large market in France for uniface medals because tens or hundreds of thousands of vets had their medals mounted in Frames with big service certificates. Often this was a second set of medals while the originals were kept to be worn. To make the mounting in the frame under glass easier the backs of the medals were sometimes removed (eg. on the CDG).

I assume the uniface were easier to mount and were often used in frames..

Best

Chris

Hello Chris,

Thanks for the info. I have just picked up the following item; a uniface French official vic. Having never seen one before I was surprised when I found it.

Has anyone else seen such a variety? Happy for any thoughts.

Regards,

Rob

[johnnymac]

There seems to have been a large market in France for uniface medals because tens or hundreds of thousands of vets had their medals mounted in Frames with big service certificates. Often this was a second set of medals while the originals were kept to be worn. To make the mounting in the frame under glass easier the backs of the medals were sometimes removed (eg. on the CDG).

I assume the uniface were easier to mount and were often used in frames..

Best

Chris

Hi Chris

The thickness of the ribbon itself, plus the ball suspension overall width, would negate the need for a uniface medal (reverse side) to fit into a frame. Might it be just a supply of M. Pautot surplus medals sold on the open market? Or, an enterprising person, or M. Pautot himself who saw a large market with the veterans who might want a framed medal? Left blank as it is, it seems to me that a veteran could have some inscription put on it, like a name, battles, dates etc. and that in itself would be a big marketing tool for this type of medal. L. O. Mattei found a market for his half of the unofficial type 2 medal "listed in Laslo's" book" by using it for shooting match medals "Concours De Tir" held in France during early 1920's.

See illustration of L.O. Mattei medal below

regards, Johnnymac (JM)

Edited April 24, 2010 by johnnymac