FRIEDRICHS ORDER W/SWORDS 3d Class?

[Mike]

Even though it's completely out of my TR collecting field ...I don't own any Imperial Neck Orders so , I just could not pass it up. It does have a crack in the enamel (on the 3 o'clock arm) . I've tried looking it up in my "Nimmergut" but can't find a picture of it and , the only shot I've found shows a Silver version not Gold. Please let me know what you think

[Mike]

#2

[Mike]

#3

[Stogieman]

Hi Mike looks like a perfect (authentic) First Class Cross with swords and especially nice with the box! 1.kl. it says 3a, as opposed to the second class, 3b. With respects to the abbreviations, see the topic pinned at the top of Imperial "Common abreviations.."

Nice cross!

[Stogieman]

PS, the m.S. is "mit Schwertern"

[Mike]

PS, the m.S. is "mit Schwertern"

Thanks ..that's a relief . The auction was closing and I didn't have time to properly research it ..so I had to toss the dice and go with my gut feeling. I paid $400 for it ...just so I can get a scale of 1 to 10 value/rarity ,what are they sellimg for today ?

Honestly ...I never paid any attention to the Imperial Orders / Awards until I came to this Forum SO ..IT's ALL YOUR FAULT, now look what you did ! Instead of bidding on Adolph's Mustache , I ended up with this ...I think the Mustache was RZM'd to boot , oh well

[David Gregory]

Thanks ..that's a relief . The auction was closing and I didn't have time to properly research it ..so I had to toss the dice and go with my gut feeling. I paid $400 for it ...just so I can get a scale of 1 to 10 value/rarity ,what are they sellimg for today ?

Honestly ...I never paid any attention to the Imperial Orders / Awards until I came to this Forum SO ..IT's ALL YOUR FAULT, now look what you did ! Instead of bidding on Adolph's Mustache , I ended up with this ...I think the Mustache was RZM'd to boot , oh well

Mike,

For that price, you can allow yourself an irritatingly smug grin, safe in the knowledge that you did not pay too much.

David

P.S. Welcome to the highly addictive world of collecting Imperial militaria. You will probably soon start selling off your TR stuff to fund your new collection.

[Dave Danner]

Just to be clear. This is not a neck badge. This is the Knight 1st Class. The Friedrich Order's suspension is a little odd, making it look like a neck badge.

This is a Commander's Cross, the neck badge:

The most obvious differences are the size and the blue enameled ring around the center medallion with the "GOTT UND MEIN RECHT" motto.

$400 is a good price for the Knight 1st Class, especially cased, even with the little enamel crack.

Edited December 2, 2005 by Dave Danner

[Claudio]

Just to add something: your FO 1. Kl. seems to be silver gilted and its value can be more of what you paid. Gold ones can go easily for more the double of a silver gilted piece. It's a nice cross with its original case... not easy to find! Congrats!!

2nd class crosses are already going for that price!

Ciao,

Claudio

Edited December 2, 2005 by Claudio

[Mike]

"Just to be clear. This is not a neck badge. This is the Knight 1st Class. The Friedrich Order's suspension is a little odd, making it look like a neck badge. "

*********

Thanks Dave ...I found a picture of one on your site marked as a "Ritterkreuz", and with that suspension so..I just assumed it was a Neck Order.

*********

Glad you like it Claudio ...so would this be between a $600 to $800 range medal? Maybe less because of the crack? I'd like to start getting a feel for the price ranges of the Imperials

[Stogieman]

Yes, I should have mentioned this.... a "sweet" price as well!

[Mike]

By the way Dave ...you've got a really nice site , thanks again

--Mike

[Mike]

I won it on Manions last night..here's the "Hammer Price"--

B11

5760456 WܒTTEMBURG FRIEDRICHS ORDER W/SWORDS 3RD CLASS, CASED

$339.00

I figured between the shipping/commision/Office charge ...it will end up being about $400.

Over the years I've heard so many complaints from other collectors about Manions but ..I've never had any problems. If I have any problem with anything ..they take it right back. There are still certain items I would not buy from any Auction House unless I had it in my hand first . And now with a new owner , things are changing for the better. No more Membership charge for one .

[Claudio]

Mike,

I got my FO 1. Kl. silver gilted from Detlev Niemann two years ago and I paid Eur 420.- without case!

The Orden&Ehrenzeichen Catalogue of J?rg Nimmergut edition 2001-02, although we can argue with most of his price evaluations, values a FO 1. Kl. in Gold for Eur 716.- and its silver gilted version for Eur 435.- (O&E catalogue no. 2981). During WWI were awarded 1766 FO 1. Kl. with swords; much less than a knight cross of the iron cross in WWII!

Don't worry mike; you really made a good deal buying it!

Ciao,

Claudio

[Mike]

During WWI were awarded 1766 FO 1. Kl. with swords; much less than a knight cross of the iron cross in WWII!

Don't worry mike; you really made a good deal buying it!

Ciao,

Claudio

[Claudio]

Hi Mike,

Like many other Ritterkreuz 1. Kl. Orders there were in Gold (2nd class was normally silver), but usually there were many variations of quality of the material. Normally pre-WWI awarded pieces or early WWI pieces were awarded in pure Gold (very light type of construction... mostly hollow produced) and later in Silver gilted. The class was the same (1st class) but the type of material different. The real golden orders are the most desirable by collectors but also the most expensive, logically.

Ciao,

Claudio

[Dave Danner]

Mike,

Some extra context. The Friedrichs-Orden mit Schwertern was W?rttemberg's main military order in World War One, basically equivalent to Bavaria's Milit?rverdienstorden and Baden's Order of the Z?hringen Lion. W?rttemberg's awards were based on rank, so this grade would typically go to captains and majors. Lieutenants got the Knight 2nd Class. Lt. Colonels and some majors might get the Order of the W?rttemberg Crown with Swords. Enlisted men were stuck mainly with the Silver Military Merit Medal.

And for some Third Reich context, here are a few of the more prominent TR personalities who had your grade, the Knight 1st Class:

• GFM Walther von Brauchitsch - also had the RK
• GFM Georg von K?chler - also had the RK (1, 30.09.39), Oakleaves (273, 21.08.43)
• GFM Erich von Lewinski gen. von Manstein - also had the RK (19.07.40), Oakleaves (209, 14.03.43), Swords (59, 30.03.44)
• GFM Erwin Rommel - also had the Pour le m?rite (10.12.17), RK (43, 27.05.40), Oakleaves (10, 20.03.41), Swords (6, 20.01.42), Diamonds (6, 11.03.43); W?rttemberg Milit?r-Verdienstorden (08.04.15)
• GFM Hugo Sperrle - also had the RK (17.05.40); W?rttemberg Milit?r-Verdienstorden (21.06.15)
• Generaloberst Ludwig Beck
• Generaloberst Werner Freiherr von Fritsch
• Generaloberst Curt Haase - also had the RK (08.06.40); W?rttemberg Milit?r-Verdienstorden
• Generaloberst Georg Lindemann - also had the RK (162, 05.08.40), Oakleaves (275, 21.08.43)
• Generaloberst Richard Ruoff - also had the RK (30.06.41); W?rttemberg Milit?r-Verdienstorden
• Gen. d. Inf. z.V. Hans Schmidt - also had the RK (530, 22.09.41), Oakleaves (334, 24.11.43), DKiG (06.11.42); W?rttemberg Milit?r-Verdienstorden
• Gen. d. Art. Hans Behlendorff - also had the RK (562, 11.10.41)
• Gen. d. Inf. Walther Fischer von Weikersthal - also had the RK (06.08.41); W?rttemberg Milit?r-Verdienstorden; W?rttemberg Goldene Milit?r-Verdienstmedaille
• Gen. d. Inf. Hermann Geyer - also had the RK (25.06.40); W?rttemberg Milit?r-Verdienstorden
• Genlt. Otto Ottenbacher - also had the RK (13.08.41); W?rttemberg Milit?r-Verdienstorden
• Genlt. Hans Graf von Sponeck - also had the RK (14.05.40)

[Stogieman]

Ladies & Gentleman . My very large "attaboys" for the wealth of information, cameraderie and encouragement offered up to Mike here today! That's what these "halls" were made for!

[Mike]

Ladies & Gentleman . My very large "attaboys" for the wealth of information, cameraderie and encouragement offered up to Mike here today! That's what these "halls" were made for!

You beat me to it Rick ! ---- Thank you all so very much ...I appreciate this Award more now that I know a lot more about it . It will be with me for a long long time now

--Mike