Bob Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 Page 5 - additional 35 red star recipients May be interesting to try to match known numbers to names... and then see if the order of names reflects number of red star given
Bob Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 Page 6 - additional 34 red star recipients
Bob Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2009/post-679-125840496066.jpgPage 7 - additional 33 red star recipients
Bob Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 Page 8, 2 additional orders of red star giving us a an accurate total... in addition, 28 medals of battle merit Will try to post seperate highlight of text on top right hand corner
Bob Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 Damn, the scans lose all detail when compressed:( Will be happy to share offline with "veteran" Mongolia forum members - just drop PM. Interesting, now i'm actually going through the list of names... the first october revolution is for... Tsedenbal:)
Bob Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 The numbers on top right hand corner of each page appear to indicate page numbering in the "binder" containing many more ukaz. It also confirms I'm missing some pages belonging to this ukaz. Here's a close up of page 8 top right hand corner - any clue what it means?
Bob Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Final page - numbered 14 on top... wheras the previous one was 8. Again, message back from researcher was that pages 9-13 did not contain Mongolians... but that just surprises me... i'd have expected page 8-14 to simply be filled with battle merit medal recipients... Perhaps getting the missing pages will provide the answers:( Edited November 16, 2009 by Bob
Bob Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Bingo! http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=23322&st=0 Ed's guy has red star nr 3700041. My guy has red star 3700098. There are exactly 56 other names in between these two people on the list I have. This appears to indicate (only two data points, but still...) that the names on the list are in the order of the award numbers! So what? Well... First of all, this gives a range (at least for 1971 "mass awardings") for red stars from 3700000 to 3700144 as far as "awarded to Mongolians". It also means we can tentatively link other red stars within that range to actual names. For example, I have 3700025 in my possession. This person would be on page 4. My poor cyrillic script would then indicate the name to be (surname) Dagvadorja. All of this is boring to most people I guess, but not to me :cheers: Edited November 16, 2009 by Bob
Bob Posted November 16, 2009 Author Posted November 16, 2009 http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/soviet-military-awards/researchers-corner/researched-orders/19685-red-star-mongolian-1780094-a-2.html#post114793 Useful cross-reference for Red Stars awarded to Mongolians long before the 3.700.000 range!
fjcp Posted November 16, 2009 Posted November 16, 2009 What a great piece of the puzzle you've found!! We should all be thanking you and sending you presents for Christmas....seriously what would you like???? I've been looking for red stars that fall into the known ranges for years and wouldn't you know it I have one outside the range, but still pretty close. For the last year I've been threatening to post a large documented group that contains a red star awarded to a Mongolian (20 odd awards and docs)but for now I'll just mention the details. Red star awarded to Tseven Tseren-Ogir serial# 3708782 awarded 12 july 1972. I wonder if he is on the list?? wink wink... Great stuff and once I get my scanner, etc. hooked up again I'll make sure to post the group.... Cheers and great stuff!!! JC
Bob Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 What a great piece of the puzzle you've found!! We should all be thanking you and sending you presents for Christmas....seriously what would you like???? I've been looking for red stars that fall into the known ranges for years and wouldn't you know it I have one outside the range, but still pretty close. For the last year I've been threatening to post a large documented group that contains a red star awarded to a Mongolian (20 odd awards and docs)but for now I'll just mention the details. Red star awarded to Tseven Tseren-Ogir serial# 3708782 awarded 12 july 1972. I wonder if he is on the list?? wink wink... Great stuff and once I get my scanner, etc. hooked up again I'll make sure to post the group.... Cheers and great stuff!!! JC What, you've kept this hidden for us for so long??? Please post soon - this place needs frequent updates or things go too quiet:) Practically, this list provides the names of Mongolians who received awards at the celebration of 50 years of Mongolian People's Army anniversary (i guess) but inevitably there'll be more Mongolians who - over time - have received Soviet awards. The link to the soviet-awards.com forum actually provides such an additional "early" list. One would have to assume that there'll also be "one off" awards aside from mass awardings. I've just sent you the scans. Please have a check anyway whether your guy is on the list. I doubt it as the date of the list is 1971 whereas yours was awarded in 1972. In fact, I hope he's not on it because that would break the working assumption that the list I have represents a correct order of award nr's. Anyway, keep on posting everybody!
fjcp Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 Hi Bob, As far as I can tell this fellow is not on your list... Good thing in many ways... I've sent in my request for research and I'm just waiting to hear back from him.. Fingers crossed. As promised here is the group.... Missing document for the two higher orders, this troubles me too but the seller swears up and down etc. that this came straight from the family. Based on my lengthy dealings with the man I am inclined to believe him and will certainly keep them together in the hope of proof sometime in the future... Some medals I forgot in the bank but they are the usual anniversary medals etc.I will add more complete pics when I get a chance. Cheers JC sorry for the horrible picture....
fjcp Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) name Edited November 19, 2009 by fjcp
Bob Posted November 19, 2009 Author Posted November 19, 2009 That's a very nice group and I'm sure everybody here eagerly awaits what hopefully may come from research The bright yellow background is a first here as well :cheeky:
Bob Posted November 24, 2009 Author Posted November 24, 2009 Have received all but 1 of the missing pages. Will do a "recount" of the nr of awardees this evening. In any case, it confims that also Orders of the Red Banner were awarded! Happy to send scans to those who also received previous time. Just PM me a reminder of your mail address. Full translation underway.
Bob Posted November 24, 2009 Author Posted November 24, 2009 Finally found a way to reduce file size but keep pics readable!
Bob Posted November 24, 2009 Author Posted November 24, 2009 So... would be cool if some of the Soviet collector friends could relate the Red Star numbers for Mongolians to (based on same timing) approximate guesstimated numbers for the OTHER awards to Mongolians. That way, at least we narrow it down a bit in case we see non - Red Star soviet awards claimed to be for Mongolians around 1971.
Bob Posted November 24, 2009 Author Posted November 24, 2009 UPDATE - 4 order of lenins - 16 order of october revolution - 35 order of red banner - 145 order of red star (serial nr range from 3.700.000 to 3.700.144) - 193 (163 confirmed + probably roughly 30 from a missing page) combat medals Will attempt to put serial nr estimations behind the non red stars later today.
Ferdinand Posted November 25, 2009 Posted November 25, 2009 It's really hard to make an accurate estimate of the serial numbers of the other awards. Echoes of War is our only lead, which doesn't contain awards to Mongolians, and I have not yet seen research on a Red Banner or so to a Mongolian. We could try to make a guess for the serial number range for the year 1971, but you would end up with a range spanning about 10,000 numbers. These Combat Merit Medals aren't serial numbered by the way.
Bob Posted November 25, 2009 Author Posted November 25, 2009 It's really hard to make an accurate estimate of the serial numbers of the other awards. Echoes of War is our only lead, which doesn't contain awards to Mongolians, and I have not yet seen research on a Red Banner or so to a Mongolian. We could try to make a guess for the serial number range for the year 1971, but you would end up with a range spanning about 10,000 numbers. These Combat Merit Medals aren't serial numbered by the way. Yep, difficult but at least useful for a reference / bullshit check (although one can never be sure... and a soviet award coming out of mongolia with a number i'd think would always be worth a bet with research:)) Got my echoes of war out: - 4 order of lenins: probably around serial nr 400.000 plus or minus 1.000 - 2.000 - 16 order of october revolution: ??? TBD ??? - 35 order of red banner: probably around serial nr 560.000 plus or minus 10.000 - 145 order of red star (serial nr range from 3.700.000 to 3.700.144) - 193 (163 confirmed + probably roughly 30 from a missing page) combat service medals: unnumbered
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