Bavarians in China.... brave and more brave?

[HeikoGrusdat]

Hello all,

nice picture that came in today with some questions........first sorry for the quality but I had to take pics with the cam , the scanner did not like the picture.....

What we see are three bavarian soldiers , maybe brothers.... all wear the bavarian long service clasp , all wear the 1905 Luitpold medal and all wear the 1901 china medal - so far so good... but please why did one of those men get the MEZ2 (for china of course) but no home country award and one of them the Bavaria MVK (for china of course) and no MEZ2 ??? Normally I would think the right man should have earned the MVK too and the man in the middle the MEZ too - or? What are your thoughts on this.....

And......... the rights man Schützenschnur has 3 same looking oaks and a 4. different looking one.... ???!!! Why ? What is that?

thanks for all help and thoughts

Heiko

[HeikoGrusdat]

detail...

[Daniel Cole]

The guy on the right received the MEZ for the great Wilhelm II mustache!

[Guest Rick Research]

Very nice photo of bride, groom, best man, and bridesmaid.

...

Bravery awards were much less lavish for China than the 1904-06 SW Africa campaign. I suspect the "Rule Of One" applied here--

"You've already GOT one- we're not giving you TWO awards."

Technically the entire Expedition Corps was "Reichs" and no longer State troops. At a guess, I'd venture that the man with the MEZ2 got his while still in East Asian Expeditionary uniform, while the other fellow was back in Bavarian uniform by the time his recommendation was processed.

Bureaucratic rivalries between Prussia and Bavaria remained even through the World War.

[HeikoGrusdat]

here is another bavarian man who was in China.... he had the luck to get one AND another... :whistle:

[HeikoGrusdat]

detail...

[sambolini]

Hi,

I know the fellow on the right is a native Bavarian, but is that still the correct precedence putting the 1905 Luitpold medal ahead of a gallantry award (MEZ)even though it was from a "foreign" country?

Regards,

Sam

[HeikoGrusdat]

...they all have their Luitpolds in front of the combattant awards - real bavarians :P

[Stogieman]

... I would also say father and two sons...

[Guest Rick Research]

Stückmeister (01.04.11) Leipold of SMS Thüringen was the only Deckoffizier with an MEZ2 and BMVK2 in May 1914. He joined the navy on 1 February 1894, so that photo must date circa 1911 on his promotion to this rank. he'd have been entitled to the 1911 version of the Luitpold Jubilee Medal, and had the XXI and AEz in Silver by 1914.

Looks like "Taku" as the top bar, can't read the lower one.

[HeikoGrusdat]

Yes the upper one is Taku - the lower one is not 100% but looks like Tientsin....

[RAO]

Guys, the best is the shootercord? Schützenschnur on screenshot one. ;o) Greetings Mike

[HeikoGrusdat]

Hi Mike....so what is the special thing about this schützenschnur with 3 + 1 nuts?

[Guest Rick Research]

Forgot to mention that there were NO Deckoffiziere in 1905 or 1908 with a MEZ2/BMVK2 pair, while Leipold was working up through the Petty Officer ranks.

And....

nooooobody noticed that the swords on his award are on...

upside down? :catjava:

[HeikoGrusdat]

:speechless1: :speechless1:

[Claudius]

And....

nooooobody noticed that the swords on his award are on...

upside down?

Upside down swords...How does that happen? Did the award slip past the manufacturer's final inspection?

I can't see the shoulderboards very well, but it looks like crossed anchors...with no crown...so, a Vize-Steuermann?

[saschaw]

I don't think this is Leipold. The man on the photo is wearing a pre-1905 one class MVKX. After the class division in 1905, those were handeled as if they were 1st classes.

Another possibility is, his entry is not correct...

[HeikoGrusdat]

...on the reverse is written:

Stückmeister Leipold SMS THÜRINGEN

in old writing...should be original.

[saschaw]

Now that's odd.

[Chip]

"Bei den Schießschulen und der Gewehrprüfungskommission erworbene Auszeichnungen erhielten zusätzlich eine versilberte Eichel bzw. Granate an silberner Schnur, die jeweils hinzugefügt und später beibehalten wurde." From Kraus. The Schützenabzeichen appears to the Stufe Nr.8.

Chip

[Guest Rick Research]

Heiko-- when you HAVE a name, please post it.

Time is NOT something I have a lot of to waste chasing down data that is not going to be there in the wrong places. I'd have had Leipold in 60 sceonds looking in the 1914 Navy Rank List, which is the LAST place I looked, since I started with the issues closest to China.

Since I am only going to be here several times a week from now on, time wasted pursuing dead ends will

frankly

simply lead to me not posting at all.

This isn't a "game" for me.

[HeikoGrusdat]

Hi Rick,

sorry for that.... it was not my intention to waste your time.... honestly I was not able to read to old writing 100% before you wrote the name down her... then it jumped into my eyes what has not been clear before... his position in the old handwriting looked like "Küchenmeister" not Stückmeister....

Promised from this time forward : every information that is available will be given , even when I am not shure what it is...

thanks for all !!! :beer: