Wood Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 This came with flight clasps and other flight badges from the same old soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Temple-West Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Ah, yes….I feel the old “Ball hinge” glider pilot badge controversy is about to rear it’s head once again. For those who are unfamiliar with this type of badge, there are two schools of thought on the subject…believers and non-believers. Never say never, and certainly, it is a very good looking badge, but other than some stories regarding collector acquisition from allied vets etc these badges have never, to my knowledge, been identified by any glider pilot or seen in any period photograph. The thing that worries me is that the glider pilots badge is a rare beast, known original examples by the firms BSW and CE Juncker are exceedingly hard to find. Why then do these ‘ball hinge’ types turn up so regularly? Personally, I have not considered buying one of these badges due to doubts and have stuck to the known originals. All that having been said….Always open to new information. So what is the story behind this piece, Wood? Please tell me that you have an 8x10” showing this badge in wear. Now that would be exciting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Well, here's another 'story' for you. Picked up from an American vet more than 30 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Stijn David may well be correct that the glider pilots he interviewed (who all seemed to have been able to have retained their originally awarded badges)had only Juncker and BSW made pieces, which would make sense if those two companies had the contract to supply the Luftwaffe with award pieces. Being officially awarded and being manufactured are, however, two entirely different things. By the way, this type badge, as with the Juncker and BSW badges, is also routinely faked, which might explain why they pop up so frequently. In reality, when you look at the number of fake Juncker and BSW glider badges, it is fair to say that real versions of the ball-hinge may be as rare as the real versions of those types. Edited December 12, 2009 by Harrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stijn David Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Hello, I know the controversy and will not add any comments on that as i have written already quite a bit about it. But i want to adjust the following " Stijn David may well be correct that the glider pilots he interviewed (who all seemed to have been able to have retained their originally awarded badges)" The Bold line is not correct and i also never stated that. Quite a few still had their badges, but certainly not all glider pilots who i met during the years => iff something is quoted. Please quote correctly Cordial greetings, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I must admit the piece looks really, really nice. Especially the bubbling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) Sorry, Stijn! I did not mean to imply that you said that ALL the pilots you met still had their original badges. What I meant to say (and what I think you did say)is that, of those whose still had their badges from the war, the badges they had were the ones originally awarded to them. Is this not correct? And if some had replacement badges (obtained during the war) because they lost their original one, did they get them from the LVA (the official LW store which had the monopoly of sale on these badges from sometime in 1941 until late 1944, when private sale was re-authorized, and which would have stocked badges from Juncker and BSW because those particular companies had the contracts to supply the LW directly)? Again, I did not mean to misquote you, but I looked at your book before writing, and also at your numerous posts on this subject here, on GCA and on WAF, and that was the impression I honestly had of what you had said. I am happy to be corrected if needed. Best regards, Harrier Edited December 18, 2009 by Harrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stijn David Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Sorry, Stijn! I did not mean to imply that you said that ALL the pilots you met still had their original badges. What I meant to say (and what I think you did say)is that, of those whose still had their badges from the war, the badges they had were the ones originally awarded to them. Is this not correct? And if some had replacement badges (obtained during the war) because they lost their original one, did they get them from the LVA (the official LW store which had the monopoly of sale on these badges from sometime in 1941 until late 1944, when private sale was re-authorized, and which would have stocked badges from Juncker and BSW because those particular companies had the contracts to supply the LW directly)? Again, I did not mean to misquote you, but I looked at your book before writing, and also at your numerous posts on this subject here, on GCA and on WAF, and that was the impression I honestly had of what you had said. I am happy to be corrected if needed. Best regards, Harrier Hello, No problem, the above written is correct Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D. Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Hi guys, I handled one of these at the MAX show a few months ago and have to say that it "felt" Ok to me. I too have followed the debate on these with great interest and I really like the construction of these, the way the finish bubbles, the hardware, etc. Holding the one at the MAX sort of confirmed to me that they feel OK in hand and there are no immediate red flags, but Stijn's thorough research does indeed make me look much harder at these and I think more information is needed to say whether they are wartime or post war IMO. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Can these be linked to any manufacturer by their style of wreath or hardware? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Can these be linked to any manufacturer by their style of wreath or hardware? No thoughts from our "badge gurus"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I am no badge guru, but I used to have a minesweeper just like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D. Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Well the hardware is most certainly a candidate for a "Gablonz-based" firm such as "AS in Triangle" or Rudolf Karneth, RSS, etc. Several other as of yet unknown maker used ball hinges like the MK IAB makers. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) Thank you, gentlemen! Gablonz ended up, after May, 1945, in the Russian Zone of Occupation, did it not? Edited December 21, 2009 by Harrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K. Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I have one of these and have always thought it was wartime produced based on manufacturing elements and quality of construction. If it has not been found in the hands of veterans, that would certainly cast some layer of doubt upon these but I still can't dismiss them totally as a fake until there is more evidence. Cheers, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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