Hungary Hero of the Hungarian Peoples Republic

[hunyadi]

This is another item that came from Hungary recently - Hero of the HUPR awarded only twice. This was obviously a National Mint left over. On the right is the final form, and the one on the left is a prototype - as related to me by an old collector who purchased two of these from the National Mint when they went out the door only 12 of these were made. As you can see the prototype had the Hero of Labor ribbon but with the National Crest added to the center - this may have been an easy way to adapt the Hero of Labor to a the Hero of the HUPR. But in the end the ribbon was changed and the crest device added to the ribbon.

[hunyadi]

reverse of the badges

[Ulsterman]

In a word-

-wow!

Is it made of real gold?

[hunyadi]

They are made of gold - probably 14-20 karat as they seem pretty durable.

[Gordon Craig]

Charles,

These are great. We never saw anything like this when we lived in Buadpest. I think I will start trolling for HUPR stuff again!!! Thanks very much for posting these gems.

Regards,

Gordon

[Yildirim]

Very, very nice!! Congratulations!

[Christophe]

This is another item that came from Hungary recently - Hero of the HUPR awarded only twice. This was obviously a National Mint left over. On the right is the final form, and the one on the left is a prototype - as related to me by an old collector who purchased two of these from the National Mint when they went out the door only 12 of these were made. As you can see the prototype had the Hero of Labor ribbon but with the National Crest added to the center - this may have been an easy way to adapt the Hero of Labor to a the Hero of the HUPR. But in the end the ribbon was changed and the crest device added to the ribbon.

Hi Charles,

Fantastic !!!

But, tell me as I am not sure to have fully understood... Which one is the prototype ? Left or right ?

Cheers.

Ch.

[hunyadi]

Sorry for the confusion - the badge on the left is the prototype for the Hero of the Hungarian Peoples Republic while the one on the right is the final form that was awarded.

[Christophe]

Crystal clear, Charles.

Cheers.

Ch.

[Yildirim]

The first medal (or, the prototype) is very interesting to me. Hunyadi, are you sure that it is the prototipe exactly of the Hero of the HUPR, not of the Hero of the Socialist Labor, or some kind of after-Rákosi version of this order? Because the ribbon and design are the same, only Rákosi symbol is replaced with the Kádár coat of arms, and that was usual for many hungarian orders and medals after Rákosi's fall.

Please, don't think that I say you are 100% wrong, I only guess - indeed, for me it is the first time I see this medal, and the literature I have doesn't describe this type, or prototype.

[hunyadi]

Yildirim, there are only a few small bits of information concerning these prototype badges. Before Bertalan Farkas made his space flight on May 26th, 1980 with his Soviet counterpart Valeri Kubasov, the National Mint was charged by the Presidential Council to create a new order, the Hero of the Hungarian Peoples Republic. This was made into law by the seventh presidential decree of 1979. This was probably announced in May of 1979 as the space flight of Soyuz 36 was extremely delayed. The decree did call for the creation of the Hero of the Hungarian People's Republic to resemble the Hero of Labor. Within the national mint Pakurar Istvan was given the charge of designing the new award. From the decree it would seem that Istvan simply started with the Hero of Labor award, removed the crossed wheat shaft and hammer and replaced it with the national coat of arms to signify that this was the highest award possible. From the tale related to me by a very old collector and former Hungarian Air Force Officer (we called him 'the old man' - whose collection was / is extensive) he purchased seven of these twelve "prototypes" that were brought out for sale by the National Mint in the early 1990's. This example is one that he sold to me at auction in 2006 (when he found out that I owned one - he wanted to buy it back - and this is where the conversation began about the origins - he sold all but two of them at the auction houses). Regardless - the design was not enough for the Presidents Council and the prototype was rejected, (possibly due to the delay of the space flight and therefore more time for politicians and military leaders to inject their thoughts and ideas into its design - the prototype seems very "hasty") and a new form - with the military style ribbon, the crest affixed to the ribbon and the plain star was formed. This was enough of a departure from the Hero of Labor to avoid any confusion when someone was wearing it. Only two were ever awarded, one to Bertalan and the other to Valeri Kubasov.

In preparation for World War Three in the 1980's the National Mint was also charged to create sets of Battle / Bravery awards. Several very nice cased sets were created for review and were locked away in the event of war with the West. Again in the 1990's these sets were sold. Each set came with a Hero of the Hungarian People's Republic as well as some other awards, there were also several "loose" Hero of the Hungarian People's Republic sold by the Mint at that time as well, and my example is naturally from that lot. How many were actually produced is still not known, but the number of 12 prototypes seems very plausible.

[Yildirim]

Wow, that was an answer!

Thank You very much hunyadi, i couldn't suppose that the story about Hero of the HUPR is so interesting.

[cimbineus]

Gents,

Let me add my voice to this discussion, please.

I think, that the first Hero of the HPR star can be called „prototype" with certain reservations only. In fact, that award belonged to the so called "WWIII" series. Just a few high ranking people knew about the existence of those kinds of awards until a scandalous event in the early '70s, when some pieces somehow appeared in one European country. The government of that country sent a Diplomatic Note to the Hungarian government with a simple but difficult to answer question, with something like this: "How is it possible that a country advocating for peace has an award set to be officially founded in the moment of out breaking of a hypothetical WWIII? Explain to us, please!" Of course, it was impossible to give a rational answer or explain anything. As a result, the given appendix to the most secret operational documents disappeared in the late '70s. The demonstration sets (I put the number around 20 sets/boxes) were stored in the Ministry of Defence, but at the end of the '80s all fade away. This Hero of the HPR belonged to that set, I think. Please, see the attached picture.

In the early '90s separate pieces (like this Hero Star) of that set appeared on the market. Later, when the existence of such awards became public, and certain people realised the rarity of such medals, the fake medals turned up, and time to time one can see some of them in the offers nowadays too, always accompanied by colourful stories.

As far as the material is concerned, those are just gold plated.

Regards,

cimbineus

Edited January 12, 2010 by cimbineus

[hunyadi]

What was the year that the note was released questioning the Hungarian justification of creating these awards. From the US perspective - I have a good reason as to why and I wonder if it coincides? Are you also explaining that the example I posted is perhaps a reproduction?

[cimbineus]

What was the year that the note was released questioning the Hungarian justification of creating these awards. From the US perspective - I have a good reason as to why and I wonder if it coincides? Are you also explaining that the example I posted is perhaps a reproduction?

Based on different sources that presumably happened in 1969 or in 1970, but the country concerned was not the USA. As far as I know that was France (90%) or Sweden (10%).

No, I did not suggest anything like that. A simply tried to worn all of you about an existing danger bumping into fake medals of that kind. (And, please, remember: the more colourful the story, the bigger the danger!)

Most probably those lose pieces were produced later, but in most of the cases with the original tools at the National Mint in Budapest in the early '90s. That is why one cannot make any differences between them. (I even do not know how to call those medals „after-produced", or …?)

cimbineus

(P.S.: Look at the ribbon on the first Hero Star, please. The Hungarian tricolour is red-white-green and not vice versa. I am sure that this piece simply could not be in a demonstration box at that time with such a mistake.)

Edited January 13, 2010 by cimbineus

[hunyadi]

Based on different sources that presumably happened in 1969 or in 1970, but the country concerned was not the USA. As far as I know that was France (90%) or Sweden (10%).

No, I did not suggest anything like that. A simply tried to worn all of you about an existing danger bumping into fake medals of that kind. (And, please, remember: the more colourful the story, the bigger the danger!)

Most probably those lose pieces were produced later, but in most of the cases with the original tools at the National Mint in Budapest in the early '90s. That is why one cannot make any differences between them. (I even do not know how to call those medals „after-produced", or …?)

cimbineus

(P.S.: Look at the ribbon on the first Hero Star, please. The Hungarian tricolour is red-white-green and not vice versa. I am sure that this piece simply could not be in a demonstration box at that time with such a mistake.)

Cimbineus -

So the "prototype" is a forgery? I can see how the ribbon is a mistake and I think it looks obvious that the ribbon was removed at one point and then possibly resewn on by mistake - I have always wondered about this since purchasing it - so in your opinion the "prototype" is a fantasy piece - or since you seem to have more knowledge about these - do you know of their existance? Several collectors there in Hungary had the same story it seems - so I dont know what to believe....

As for the HUPR boxed sets if I recall in talking to the curator at the Military Museum he left me with the understanding that these came in the early 1980's? This would coincied with a growing fears within the military strategists of a WW3...

Edited January 14, 2010 by hunyadi

[Gordon Craig]

Based on different sources that presumably happened in 1969 or in 1970, but the country concerned was not the USA. As far as I know that was France (90%) or Sweden (10%).

No, I did not suggest anything like that. A simply tried to worn all of you about an existing danger bumping into fake medals of that kind. (And, please, remember: the more colourful the story, the bigger the danger!)

Most probably those lose pieces were produced later, but in most of the cases with the original tools at the National Mint in Budapest in the early '90s. That is why one cannot make any differences between them. (I even do not know how to call those medals „after-produced", or …?)

cimbineus

(P.S.: Look at the ribbon on the first Hero Star, please. The Hungarian tricolour is red-white-green and not vice versa. I am sure that this piece simply could not be in a demonstration box at that time with such a mistake.)

cimbineus,

Medals/orders etc. made with the original dies/tools after the period of award or after the orignal ones were made are referred to in English as "restrikes". There is always a difference of opion among collectors as to whether these "restrikes" are originals or not. Since there is usually no way to tell those made before or after the fact when the original dies/tools are used it is up to the buyer to try and work that out for themselves just exactly what they are.

Robert Souval of Vienna made a lot of Third Reich awards after the end of WWII using the original dies/tools they used to make the same awards during the war. Unless the material used to may the awards changed or the dies/tools become cracked there was no way to tell pre-May 1945 awards from post May 1945 awards.

Regards,

Gordon

[cimbineus]

cimbineus,

Medals/orders etc. made with the original dies/tools after the period of award or after the orignal ones were made are referred to in English as "restrikes". There is always a difference of opion among collectors as to whether these "restrikes" are originals or not. Since there is usually no way to tell those made before or after the fact when the original dies/tools are used it is up to the buyer to try and work that out for themselves just exactly what they are.

Robert Souval of Vienna made a lot of Third Reich awards after the end of WWII using the original dies/tools they used to make the same awards during the war. Unless the material used to may the awards changed or the dies/tools become cracked there was no way to tell pre-May 1945 awards from post May 1945 awards.

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon,

Thanks for the vocabulary. I fully agree with everything you say. I can add that not only the collectors but the experts are also divided in this respect...

Regards,

cimbineus

.

Edited January 14, 2010 by cimbineus

[ApathyL]

cimbineus,

Unless the material used to may the awards changed or the dies/tools become cracked there was no way to tell pre-May 1945 awards from post May 1945 awards.

Regards,

Gordon

i dont quite agree, its the same with the knights cross, you can easily tell postwar and pre-45 Knights crosses from their die flaws. The same is true to the EK`s, even in the period they had die flaws, which later become even worse, which is quite obvious why., like on the S&L post 45 KC-`s, plus as mentioned the Rudolf Souval company made awards, well on the EK1, its also easy to tell which is post and pre 45, the hardware is not the same.

regards, Les

Edited May 2, 2010 by ApathyL

[hunyadi]

Les - what Gordon and you have stated are the same. For the interest of clarity - unlike German awards which were made from several sources - the orders and decorations of the Hungarian People's Republic were made by the one source of the State Mint. They held all the dies and used them accordingly. It is certainly plausable that the State Mint made these post 1990, but there is no certain way to tell as the dies and the materials are readily available to them during this entire time. If there were post (and there certainly may have been) 1990 strikes of these Hero awards they have controlled production to still make these awards quite rare and hard to come by. The prototype especially - as there have only been a handful - I know of only three that have appeared on the market and only when the Hungarian economy was heading into heavy unemployment and high inflation - hence individuals who had these in their collections were in need of funds. Interestingly enough the image of the second one that came up for auction (for the prototype) at Bedo - also has the reversed ribbon - so perhaps these were "rejects"?? that were later sold to the public. Oh what I would have given to be at the "liquidation sale" at the State Mint that day... :banger:

[cimbineus]

... the orders and decorations of the Hungarian People's Republic were made by the one source of the State Mint. They held all the dies and used them accordingly. It is certainly plausable that the State Mint made these post 1990, but there is no certain way to tell as the dies and the materials are readily available to them during this entire time. If there were post (and there certainly may have been) 1990 strikes of these Hero awards they have controlled production to still make these awards quite rare and hard to come by. ...

Yes indeed, this was the case. Everything was in one hand and there was no fair control over the State Mint. Just two examples: Military people usually have several different dresses but only one set of awards. In Hungary there is (and there was!) no way to obtain a second or third set of awards. You have the only piece you were awarded. But it is so inconvenient to move those orders and medals from one uniform to another, so, the high ranking officers applied for second and third sets sometimes, and with certain permissions the State Mint reproduced the orders or medals even decades after the official termination of their production. I know some cases when the different degrees of the Order of the HPR were reproduced as late as mid '80s.

Or, even worst, when Pál Losonczi, the forth President of the Presidential Council (the President) of the HPR ordered to reproduce different classes of the Kossuth Order in the '70s. You can meet those shiny pieces quite often even today, with plastic on them instead of enamel. According to some memorials, he presented those reproductions as gifts to local escort people during his trips to different countries.

cimbineus

Edited May 4, 2010 by cimbineus

[ApathyL]

Les - what Gordon and you have stated are the same. For the interest of clarity - unlike German awards which were made from several sources - the orders and decorations of the Hungarian People's Republic were made by the one source of the State Mint. They held all the dies and used them accordingly. It is certainly plausable that the State Mint made these post 1990, but there is no certain way to tell as the dies and the materials are readily available to them during this entire time. If there were post (and there certainly may have been) 1990 strikes of these Hero awards they have controlled production to still make these awards quite rare and hard to come by. The prototype especially - as there have only been a handful - I know of only three that have appeared on the market and only when the Hungarian economy was heading into heavy unemployment and high inflation - hence individuals who had these in their collections were in need of funds. Interestingly enough the image of the second one that came up for auction (for the prototype) at Bedo - also has the reversed ribbon - so perhaps these were "rejects"?? that were later sold to the public. Oh what I would have given to be at the "liquidation sale" at the State Mint that day...

sorry mate i must have missed Gordon`s post earlier... :beer:

[hunyadi]

Not a problem!