Heer SS Ribbon Bar

[Signalcorps45]

Hello to all,

I would like comments on whether this ribbon bar is real or fake.

Any help would be appreciated.

Dean

[Signalcorps45]

[Hauptmann]

Hi Dean,

I'm far from an expert on these but I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't like it. The ribbons look far too new, the pin clasp on the back looks like the many Ohio parts bars I've seen examples of in the past. There are extremely few... I think only a couple or so, confirmed original SS bars. If you check this link (by our own Richard Lundstrom (Rick Research) it shows an original SS miniature along with examples of fakes. From what I can see in your picture I think I see some pitting and uneveness in the lines as well as a lack of the cleft between the runes.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/related/ribbons/device_gallery/ss_runes/ss_runes.htm

Have you checked this bar with a UV (ultra-violet) light? It's not a sure thing but it's often an indication of fakes if the material glows.

Check the pin clasp... see if you can see any marks like pencil lines. If so that's a sure sign of an Ohio parts bar.

I'm sure if Rick sees this he'll hit the nail on the head and confirm it one way or the other for sure.

Hope I'm wrong but again I just don't like the look of it. If I saw it for sale as a fake for cheap I'd pick it up just as a space filler or for parts but that's about it.

Dan

[Signalcorps45]

Dan,

I kind of thought this would fall into the fake category. I have seen other posts and thought that the SS runes on this bar looked similar to those, but I was not sure. Like you, I am not an expert and wanted an official ruling.

You are right, the ribbons look very new. After reading your post, I took a closer look at the cleft between the runes. The cleft on this ribbon bar is very, very narrow, not well defined.

Thank you for the information.

Dean

[Hauptmann]

Don't give up total hope yet. I'd definitely prefer to see one of our more expert members like Rick Research pop on and give their opinions. Like I said I'm kind of stepping out on a limb on this one. I pray I'm wrong but just had to give my gut feeling.

Out of curiosity, is this one you own or one you're looking to buy? Hoping if you own it you don't have much in it in case it is confirmed as a fake beyond a doubt. Trust me, we've all been burned over time, myself included. But always much easier to take when it was not a large amount. Plus, you just have to take it as a learning experience. Over time you'll know precisely what to keep an eye out for.

Dan

[Hauptmann]

Dean... here's a thread that might be of interest. Towards the bottom of it you'll see one of the few original SS bars known.

Hope it's of help.

Dan

[Guest Rick Research]

Fake runes and what appears to be one of the circa 2002 "Swedish" cast fake and painted Prague bars.

The catch on back looks right but is inexplicably behind the 3rd spot and not punched out of the last place-- nor is the hinge end over under the first space where it should be.

If, in the interests of collecting science (and if you cannot get your real money back anyway) you would like to dissect this Frankenstein so we can see what the metal backing innards look like, that would be quite illuminating.

This appears to be a new generation of fake with "improved" stamped-LOOKING catch, but still in the wrong place for it and with a too short pin.

[Signalcorps45]

Rick and Dan,

I am willing to do surgery on this ribbon bar and photograph the details of its construction. Give me some time with this and I will post the pictures.

If this can help with spotting fakes, I am more than willing to help.

Dean

[Guest Rick Research]

That would be much appreciated. I'm wondering whether there is a smaller metal backing stuck inside, or if the "stamped" looking catch is a chunk soldered/glued in.

Forgot to mention that the tell-tale charcoal gray backing sewn way to close to all the edges also appeared circa 2002 with a gigantic batch of Frankenstein bars-- osme as silly as TWO place bars.

[Signalcorps45]

Rick,

The catch looks stamped as you said. It does not appear to be glued or soldered, but stamped or punched out. I included the pictures below.

Dean

After removing backing

[Signalcorps45]

The devices

[Signalcorps45]

After removing devices

[Signalcorps45]

The catch

[Guest Rick Research]

Thanks!

The strange metal backing plate appears to be original, of a type I've never seen before. It's a very bad design-- those projecting ends beyond the hinge and catch would have snagged on overcoat linings something awful.

Oddly enough, even the Xs device is fake-- it has solid V angles between the hilts and blades above as found on the hollow stamped late war type that used feeble integral struck tabs at the X intersection of the swords.

"Early" (1990-ish) fakes used original ribbon stock, mostly original devices, but hand-made metal skeletons. These latest ones have original backings from a huge hoard sold on ebay about 2002, less and less original ribbons and...

increasingly fake devices for even the most common things.

[Signalcorps45]

Rick,

Thanks for taking a look at this ribbon bar. I certainly learned something new from your analysis and this whole thread.

Dean

[M Hunter]

Would just like to say that this has been a very informative thread ....especialy for someone who is actively looking for an SS ribbon bar.

Here is a link to another fake SS ribbon bar curently on eBay (has ben for awhile). An original is posted also, courtesy of Stogieman!

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=40752

Kind regards

Matt

Edited January 12, 2010 by M Hunter

[Guest Rick Research]

I have not run out of fingers counting real ones seen/handled in over 40 years of collecting.

Assume bad unless proven good ALWAYS.

Thousands and thousands of fakes out there.