Mongolia CASED/BOXED Mongolian Awards

[Guest Rick Research]

Will start a focussed thread on awards in their presentation containers since boxes seem to turn up as infrequently as matched serial numbered awards and Award Books.

Anyway, this late type (serial is 21,118) Military Merit Medal came through (I'm starting to feel like the Underground Railroad for "passing through" Communist decorations Just Visiting) today and I thought it was interesting!

A thick clear plastic lid fits on a two piece heavy red plastic fitted base. The medal has slipped here turning it upside down since there is that amount of space under the lid:

[attachmentid=19721]

Here it is on end: on the top and bottom sides (but not on the two sides) there are little "bumps" as show here which raise the clear lid up a bit-- this is LOOSE, it does not "snick" down tight, so that the clear plastic top merely rests atop the red plastic bottom--

[attachmentid=19722]

[Guest Rick Research]

Here is the hard red plastic fitted case and obverse of the MMM:

[attachmentid=19723]

and the reverse showing its two piece construction:

[attachmentid=19724]

[Ed_Haynes]

And the current (post-socialist) variety?

[Vatjan]

This is the standard (communist) order box, also comes in a smaller size for badges

[Vatjan]

And recently on our favourite auction site

[Vatjan]

Maybe Bob can post his beautiful boxed Choibalsan state prize here aswell.

Jan

Edited December 20, 2005 by vatjan

[Guest Rick Research]

OK, so having been lost by Ed's enigmatic terseness,

IS the little hard plastic box POST-Communist? I assumed it was a late Soviet era one, since there is an entire final variety of the medal ("checkerboard" reverse) shown by Dr. Battushig AFTER this smooth reverse/enamel suspension MMM type.

1) Does THIS medal shown by me above go in THAT box?

2) How do we determine at what point in the serial number ranger the regime changed? The "highest' documented date/number I can pull up from here in other threads is 5,228 back on 24 July 1954.

Not to derail THIS thread OFF of boxed awards, but if much higher numbers and known dates ARE known, they didn't get posted in the thread where we were doing that.

Also had one of the "Egyptian mummy" deep inner lid padded red cased medals brought by today for scanning, but wouldn't have been able to get as good views as just shown! The number on THAT medal is 3,390 BTW, falling between the known 1951 and 1954 MMMs in our dates/serials thread.

Back with scans of today's OTHER visitor:

[attachmentid=19732]

This apparently was manufactured with a hole in the center for a screwback badge, but this one was never used for that-- the second hole screws down MMM # 3,390, the Monetny Dvor screw disk for which shows here-- and which raises the liner tray at a nice display angle inside when the box is opened:

[attachmentid=19733]

The hinged end is simply reinforced case cover material to make a heavy "tape" hinge-- not a bit of metal anywhere in this:

[attachmentid=19734]

[Vatjan]

I'm sure everyone saw this one last week

[Ed_Haynes]

Sorry for the terseness. Dealing with insanity of pending foreign trip PLUS likely looming major computer failure which I DO NOT NEED.

I associate -- am I wrong -- the enemel ribbon and pinback on these awards with the later varieties. Ref. Battushig p. 61.

A.37.1 - real ribbon, screwback, engraved number - he shows #7693 (or something like that)

A.37.2 - pinback, pinback, engraved number - he shows #18549

A.37.3 - enamel ribbon, pinback, engraved number - he shows #11556 (??)

A.37.4 - enamed ribbon, pinback, no number, patterned reverse

So this seems to be a A.37.3. The orders went pinbacked in 1970, so I mispoke by saying post-socialist (typing without Battushig in hand and thinking only in fragments), but this'd be a post-1970 award by analogy?

[Vatjan]

OK, so having been lost by Ed's enigmatic terseness,

IS the little hard plastic box POST-Communist? I assumed it was a late Soviet era one, since there is an entire final variety of the medal ("checkerboard" reverse) shown by Dr. Battushig AFTER this smooth reverse/enamel suspension MMM type.

This is the communist all purpose box, most medals of that period were more or less the same size, and were consequently all put in that sort of box. This being said, the a similar box exists for the post communist 50th anniv of the MPR. I'll post pix later.

1) Does THIS medal shown by me above go in THAT box?

Yes

2) How do we determine at what point in the serial number ranger the regime changed? The "highest' documented date/number I can pull up from here in other threads is 5,228 back on 24 July 1954.

For this medal the serial number range did not change, it just stopped, later medals are unnumbered.

Medal 18822 to Suvdaa Luvsandarshiin was awarded on April 5, 1985

Not to derail THIS thread OFF of boxed awards, but if much higher numbers and known dates ARE known, they didn't get posted in the thread where we were doing that.

Ok, I got your point, will update tommorow

Picture: 50th anniv MPR medal 1970 in box and 30th anniv Khalkhin Gol 1979

Jan

Edited December 20, 2005 by vatjan

[Vatjan]

Sorry for the terseness. Dealing with insanity of pending foreign trip PLUS likely looming major computer failure which I DO NOT NEED.

I associate -- am I wrong -- the enemel ribbon and pinback on these awards with the later varieties. Ref. Battushig p. 61.

A.37.1 - real ribbon, screwback, engraved number - he shows #7693 (or something like that)

A.37.2 - pinback, pinback, engraved number - he shows #18549

A.37.3 - enamel ribbon, pinback, engraved number - he shows #11556 (??)

A.37.4 - enamed ribbon, pinback, no number, patterned reverse

So this seems to be a A.37.3. The orders went pinbacked in 1970, so I mispoke by saying post-socialist (typing without Battushig in hand and thinking only in fragments), but this'd be a post-1970 award by analogy?

This is not quite a complete variations list, here we go:

A37.1 Variation 1: real ribbon, screwback, hand engraved number, number preceded by "N?", seperately soldered ring

A37.1 Variation 2: real ribbon, screwback, hand engraved number, number NOT preceded by "N?", seperately soldered ring

A.37.2 Real ribbon, pinback, rotating tool engraved number, ring part of the medal

A.37.3 OK

A.37.4 OK

Edited December 20, 2005 by vatjan

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks much. Is this expansion on Battushig published anywhere?

Edited December 20, 2005 by Ed_Haynes

[Vatjan]

Thanks much. Is this expansion on Battushig published anywhwre?

I'll shall post them in a new thread tomorrow.

Jan

Edited December 20, 2005 by vatjan

[Guest Rick Research]

I never had a Mongolian award box in my paws before today, so I'm still on training-wheels for my little learning bicycle.

Are the deep "sarcophagus" boxes datable as "up to" a certain point, and then totally replaced by the slim plastic boxes? Obviously, screwbacks didn't fit in the plastic boxes, and pinback medals did, so...

are the big deep boxes "pre-1970"?

Why is the sky blue?

[Bob]

Maybe Bob can post his beautiful boxed Choibalsan state prize here aswell.

Jan

No problem - in more detail now then

[Bob]

more

[Bob]

more

and more

[Bob]

and more

and more

[Bob]

and more

and more

[Bob]

and the last one...

This is my favorite Mongolian award in possession.

[Ed_Haynes]

Oh . . .

[Bob]

Came back to this old thread after looking at following old thread on another forum:

http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/showthr...3621&page=7

Makes one wonder about the red boxes:

- first, why are there so few of them? If you received an award in a nice red box wouldn't you take just as good care of the box?

- secondly, were these cardboard (see the link) boxes purely used at the mint or is that how people would get them? In last case, where'd they then get the red box from?

Simple questions but difficult to answer

[Bob]

A small surge in boxed awards recently incl. the - presumably - original cardboard boxes. On Pumbark's website you can see an unissued Order of Red Banner neatly tucked into it's cardboard box for instance.

[Ed_Haynes]

Interesting, Bob. Questions worth asking. Shall do so. In a couple of weeks.

[Stogieman]

Well, the (red) cased awards I have seen were all 1940's types. The boxed (cardboard) one he has appears to be much later. The red cases seem pretty consistent with Soviet 1940's ones (like the HS/HSL). Never seen the cardboard box like this before.