joe campbell Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 greetings!i have apparently been a very good boy this year,as santa (my mentor) sent this to me for Christmas!!this is an imperial russian guards regimentalcommemorative cross, one of perhaps 8 or 9 regiments involved in the support of prussian troops at the battle of kulm in 1813 which laterdesigned commemoratives.this one is for the Fleet of the Imperial Guard andwas instituted feb 8, 1910. it is a screwback with aretaining plate, both marked in cyrillic(?) characters.its basis in the eiserne kreuz is obvious, so it is myrussiangerman iron cross.if anyone can help with the characters on thereverse, it would be greatly appreciated. also,the only reference i have is VE Bowen's monograph,in which it is mentioned in passing. any russian references would be appreciated.i have NO IDEA as to numbers made, scarcity, etc.your input is appreciated!Merry Christmas!joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted December 22, 2005 Author Share Posted December 22, 2005 the reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Good on ya, Joe! Your season is off to a fine start and Santa hasn't even hit your chimney! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 The flat back plate is marked " Yeduard' " for the famous jeweller and Orders maker. But the screw disk is a Soviet one, marked " Z (abo) -d Pobeda Moskva " for the F(actor)y 'Victory' Moscow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeCL Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Hi Joe,As Rick states, The maker of the backing plate is Eduard.And mismatched with a later screw nut.. Can you post a reverse of the badge itself?ThanksGeorge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Joe, Super nice piece. I have only seen a couple real ones of different types before. I have to say this one has them beat. Beauty, simplicity and quality all in one piece. Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted December 23, 2005 Author Share Posted December 23, 2005 thank you, dan!and thanks for the info on the screw and thejeweller.here are the pix of the reverse.joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted December 23, 2005 Author Share Posted December 23, 2005 it would appear that nicholas' cypher was attachedthrough one set of drilled holes, and that perhaps there was a "generic" cross which could be used for any of thespecific regiments. why?i would think the unused set of holes on the 3 and 9arms would be for one of the other regiments.hope you likee!joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted December 23, 2005 Author Share Posted December 23, 2005 what - if anything - should i do about the green schleck??? (yeah, i know --- verdigris....)technical information appreciated!joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 Joe, Verdigris is a form of corrosion that acts slowly, probably over decades. It is usually seen when metals such as copper, brass or even silver come into contact for prolonged periods with other objects that hold moisture, such as leather, cloth etc. The only thing I have ever done is used a stiff bristled toothbrush on it. That is usually enough to remove it and will not harm the patina on the rest of the piece. If that does not work, you will have to decide how much you like the almost hundred years of patina on the back, because anything stronger will surely remove it in that area. If you ever have any duplicates you want to get rid of, I would love to have one to display with my baby (seen at left).Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted December 24, 2005 Author Share Posted December 24, 2005 dan-thanks for your input. i was consideringsomething along the same lines, and willprobably do it as it is on the reverseand preservational in nature.could you post a larger reverse and obverse of yours?merry christmas to you and all!joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 What a fantastic example I have NEVER seen one before Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeCL Posted December 24, 2005 Share Posted December 24, 2005 Great piece. I dont see any problems with it.The cross itself is unique to the Kulm cross.I have seen different Reg. examples with the extra holes..I think these were drilled and used to sew the cross to the uniform,This would keep it from spinning in the Hole..George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 (edited) Joe, Since you asked, I never get tired of showing off this beauty. I feel this is the most fantastic piece in my collection and I am truly appreciative that I am allowed to own it and share it with you. I have shown it to a few gentlemen and I understand it is Russian jeweler made c.1830. Dan Murphy Edited December 25, 2005 by Daniel Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 (edited) The reverse. This was made using two sets of handmade and hand engraved dies. The first set formed the center design on the sheet of silver and the second set formed the raised edge. There appears to be some silver solder in the outside corners where the metal may have split in the second die.Dan Murphy Edited December 25, 2005 by Daniel Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Here is a close up of the maker marks. They are so tiny, I did not realize they were there for several years. I cannot make them out and have never bought a microscope. I am very hesitant to send this to anyone for fear it will get lost in the mail.Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted December 25, 2005 Author Share Posted December 25, 2005 dan-i have to agree!i could look at this piece ALL DAY LONG!!several thoughts...first, the mounting loops are quite reminiscentof the earliest method used in the 1813 crosses.while i doubt there was a whole lot of chatterbetween the prussian and russian jewellers,perhaps this was inspired by the russian makerseeing some of the early EK's with either oneor two loops per arm, and his "using the technology".second, from the reverse, one can imagine thedesign and manufacturing techniques alonga continuum. especially with the trough-likeappearance of the outer flange.an extremely interesting piece you have, andcertainly deserving of the attention!my thanks! joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete A Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Dan (and others),there is a similar Guards Equipage badge for sale at the next Dmitry Markov auction, lot 2204 (www.russian-medals.net, the on-line catalogue doesn't seem to work with firefox though). Not to mention all those other imperial russian goodies..Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 gentlemen- i am not having much luck getting information on availabilty/value for this piece on the limited number of sites i've found with imperial russian material. could i impose on "a little help from my friends"??? my thanks in advance! joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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