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    A New Topic! The Imperial Tank Badge!


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    I am always lothe to broach this subject. This badge is like the Aerial Gunner badge. There's plenty available for anyonw who wants to buy one. I have seen exactly 2 that I liked. This isn't one of the two..... but there's an awful lot about it that I like so I toss it out there for friendly debate! What do you think??

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    Hi Rick,

    This is a hard one. One thing is for sure, it can NOT be compared to Juncker examples so let's keep those out of this discussion (apples v's oranges imo). There are many differences, mainly in the "central" detail of the artillery bursts, tank and "ground" features.

    There are Juncker marked examples of this type, however they are raybacks with shallow scoops behind the skull (crown marks too from memory) and I immediately put them into the same category as Juncker "crown" flight badges Meybauer flight badges with non-Meybauer pins (and shallow areas behind the crown).

    I have one with the same obverse design as yours Rick, but it has a very different hinge/pin arrangement. My example has a Meybauer-like main pin, but not an early Meybauer pin which tend to be thinnner and better formed than the later (30s) slightly chunkier pins. I wish Detlev had shown the Obverse of his early Meybauer example on the bottom left of P158 in his new catalogue - it would have helped immensely! Winkler has just sold one of this obverse design type; a hollow rayback example with Meybauer mark but not a Meybauer pin - it came with a Detlev COA as well (which seems to be the only provenance for one of the few accepted Juncker examples - I don't know of any example with direct German veteran provenance). I have other examples of this type on file, no two of which seem to have the same hinge/pin/catch arrangement. Some of them appear to be obvious poor quality fakes though.

    When it comes to this type I don't think there is hard evidence either way. Personally, there seems to be some indications that Meybauer is involved. Exactly what constitutes an original Meybauer is unknown to me. I feel my own example is of good quality so I live with the possibility that it is pre-40ish. This one also appears to be of good quality so maybe it's a pre-40 example (whether purchased by a qualified recipient or used as a store/museum display), maybe it's a high-end post-WW2 fake, I don't know.

    Regards

    Mike

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    Hi Mike, this one's not mine. I "liberated" the photo for sake of discussion. There's many things I like about the badge, but as I keep coming back, I notice things I don't care for at all, like the shape of the Death's head on the nose of this tank......

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    Hi Mike, the seller states it to be a Juncker and therein lies a major issue. it's actually in a correct Juncker issue case. Case is real for sure, but the badge sure doesn't match up with juncker dies. So now comes the big question! Did Juncker use the same die for both types of badges?

    I cannot think of any plausible reasons why they would not. For example, the issue Aerial Gunner Badge used the same die to stamp out the bird/target piece whether stamped steel, or stamped silver. The slight variances that occur can be completely attributed to the two different materials, of two very different thicknesses, used to make the pieces. Now, when I initially saw this piece and discussed it with the seller, my feelings were right case, possibly right badge, just mismatched. But the more I study the badge, the less I am happy with it. Here's another boomerrang! There are REAL stamped silver badges for the pilot/observer in real silver. Cliche badge, but silver, instead of silver tin and they bear an almost identical 800 stamp in the pin as this tank badge. So, initially, my quick look and snatch of the photo was that the badge probably came from this same (still unidentified) maker... Differences on the wreath, skull, logs, shell bursts and background I can accept. The lack of the T?tenkopf on the front is what I am currently having a serious issue with. Interesting, n'est-ce pas?

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    • 6 months later...
    Guest Rick Research

    As a simple Reality Check, all sources have consistently stated since the 1930s that under 100 badges were awarded

    and yet there are, at any given moment

    1,237,618 badges in at least 96,456 "varieties" available.

    Those are odds that make me walk on by any and all of these... and always will.

    Extreme demand, wish fulfillment, and a retail market cannot beat those statistics.

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    Hi,

    Rick, my understanding of this badge is that it was commemerative and that it was APPLIED for, not awarded. I have read that in the FIRST batch there were 100 or so badges, made by Juncker.

    Yes, reality check, the badge is rare - imo nobody can argue with that, certainly not me. I also don't think there would be that many variants, and when you look through the badges that are half-believable based on construction and details, there are NOT that many different/distinct types of obverse design for this badge - maybe only 3 or 4 of the large skull type (but I have not studied them in super detail because I have not seen many half believable examples). From what I've seen, believable examples (not the obvious glitzy eBay repros) do not actually appear on the market all that often, certainly much, much, much less frequently that believable Pilot's Badges.

    Further, although 100 is a firm number for the first batch, how many veterans may have obtained them after the first batch received theirs - either as replacements, duplicates or those who missed out on the first batch? How many were produced for display purposes, etc? I agree, even so, there still would not have been all that many genuine badges produced.

    And here's the big question, if only 100 were ever "authorised", why are there TWO distinct types of badge (totally different skulls) evident in period (pre-45) photos?

    Regards

    Mike

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