Dangerous Ordnance Query

[PKeating]

Gents,

I got an email today from a friend here in France saying that his son's mate dug these up on Omaha Beach (Normandy) this weekend. He asked if they were dangerous. I told him to tell them all not to touch it, pending either an identification or the arrival of the unexploded ordnance squad.

Did I give them the right advice? And does anyone know what these are?

PK

[Chris Boonzaier]

I have no idea what it is,.... but it looks suspiciously like something I would NOT hit with a hammer!

[Brian Wolfe]

I have no idea what it is,.... but it looks suspiciously like something I would NOT hit with a hammer!

I concur with Chris, the "nose" looks like an explosive round. From what I have read and heard these can get more unstable with time. Use extreme caution! These may not have claimed their last victum...yet.

Regards

Brian

[Mervyn Mitton]

Could it be a British or, U.S. aircraft cannon shell ? The projection from the back could be for tracer ? Our fighters certainly strafed those beaches - trying to explode mines. 20mm ?

I agree about not touching it - when I lived in Poole in Dorset there was a nearby beach that US Marines had used as a training ground in WW2 - visitors would go for walks on the lovely sands and often picked-up shiny pebbles as souvenirs. Unfortunately it was often lumps of phosphorus and it only 'gleams' when wet. When it dried in their pockets or, bags it spontaneously burst into flames - and it cannot be extinguished. My motto - get others to pick these things-up........

[censlenov]

I don't think they have anything to do with ww2 and don't look like any kind of ordnance i've ever seen. In my day job i have seen these before however or atleast models very similar. They appear to be teeth from a pavement milling machine. They are replaceable when they wear out.

check out this page about half way down.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.intermountaindrillingsupply.com/uploads/kenbits.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.intermountaindrillingsupply.com/content/index.asp%3Fpage%3D24&usg=__PeE-OgbozqcBV4f7WMwplu59ex4=&h=199&w=145&sz=6&hl=en&start=38&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=jBxVwJUg3feQCM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=76&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmilling%2Bteeth%26start%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4ADSA_enCA332CA332%26ndsp%3D21%26tbs%3Disch:1

The tooth appearance varies depending on manufacturer. But they all are pretty similar.

Cheers

Chris

Edited March 28, 2010 by censlenov

[Mervyn Mitton]

Chris - you could well be right - however, it does look like a drive band around the head ?

[Brian Wolfe]

I don't think they have anything to do with ww2 and don't look like any kind of ordnance i've ever seen. In my day job i have seen these before however or atleast models very similar. They appear to be teeth from a pavement milling machine. They are replaceable when they wear out.

check out this page about half way down.

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.intermountaindrillingsupply.com/uploads/kenbits.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.intermountaindrillingsupply.com/content/index.asp%3Fpage%3D24&usg=__PeE-OgbozqcBV4f7WMwplu59ex4=&h=199&w=145&sz=6&hl=en&start=38&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=jBxVwJUg3feQCM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=76&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmilling%2Bteeth%26start%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4ADSA_enCA332CA332%26ndsp%3D21%26tbs%3Disch:1

The tooth appearance varies depending on manufacturer. But they all are pretty similar.

Cheers

Chris

Hi Chris,

Good eye, it sure looks like the one in PK's original post.

Regards

Brian

[PKeating]

Thank you all very much. I have passed your responses to the boy's parents. I was wondering if they might be tips from armour-piercing rounds but they do look like those road-milling machine parts.

PK

[Zolacolor]

Hello,

Thank you all for your help. I am the person who found these on a scout trip, and the cemetry is likely to have needed grinding teeth with road building equipment. After a close look at my find (and comparing it to the picture)

We have found the letter K incased by a square diamond (that is similar to this picture) on the ring of the road milling teeth.

[Mervyn Mitton]

A good - interesting item - which attracted some good comments. Welcome to the Forum and I hope we hear more from you. However, don't specifically look for old shells and bombs - you might not be so lucky next time.....

[peter monahan]

The dark tip on this is probably an industrial diamond. Used to use cutting bits for mining with very similar 'gems' in them. Probably worth a pint of lager on the open market!

Peter

[Taurus454]

They look like old ammunition fuzes. Given the nose, I would have to say it is a PD (point detonating) fuze for an 80mm or larger round. I'm guessing it is a mortar fuze as it appears that it will need a high angle strike on the nose to actually ignite the fuze. They would usually be screwed into the projectile and then fired. From the looks, I'd say there probably isn't a supplementary charge to actually detonate the round in the fuze. The sup charge was probably contained in the round. All the fuze may have contained was an igniter which appears could be fired out the base and set the sup charge off in the projectile. Though the rupture of the fuze at the base in the top photo gives me some cause for alarm because there may have actually been a sup charge in the fuze. All is speculation on my part without actually having the item to examine. The 100% safe bet answer is call police for disposal. Based on the photographic evidence, about a 1 in a million chance it might still go off. Are those odds worth risking your child? That's the decision your friend appears to have made.

Best of luck!

Tom

[Mervyn Mitton]

Well - that certainly ' puts the cats amongst the pigeons'. I think Prosper must advise his friend a.s.a.p. - hopefully it will turnout to still be the drill bit.

Welcome to the Forum,Tom.

[peter monahan]

Well - that certainly ' puts the cats amongst the pigeons'. I think Prosper must advise his friend a.s.a.p. - hopefully it will turnout to still be the drill bit.

Indeed! Not worth risking your fingers, hand or life over, however it turns out.

Peter

[Taurus454]

To my knowledge, the explosives which become unstable are the nitroglycerin based explosives. The explosive materiel will actually "sweat" the nitro out as droplets. If you can get a drop on your finger and the temperature is right, you can flick it on the ground and it will give a nice snap or small "explosion". Have that happen while still on some propellant, you have a nice ammo "cook-off".

When the battleship (I forget the name) gun turret went up while they were loading propellant, I figured they had an old lot which had sweated and was unstable. After the homosexual suicide thing blew up in the Navy's face, they relooked it and concluded "early powder misfire". Almost guaranteed to occur with large temperature swings which was the case for the Navy 16" ammo as their storage bunkers which was storing the WW2 propellant weren't sate of the art. BTW, the Navy hadn't had any of that ammo or propellant made since WW2 so you figure what condition it must have been in sitting in some damp moldy ammo bunker.

If you want to see something cool, check out my recent W33 update on wikipedia. If you want me to answer questions about it, I will as part of a new thread.

Good Hunting!

Tom

I concur with Chris, the "nose" looks like an explosive round. From what I have read and heard these can get more unstable with time. Use extreme caution! These may not have claimed their last victum...yet.

Regards

Brian

[Mervyn Mitton]

Tom - I think your experience would make an interesting topic - we don't get nearly enough different threads. However, if you get too technical , I for one, will be quite lost.....