Turkey TWM Prices?

[Tim B]

I just seen this sell for $665.00!!

I understand it's a nice conditioned Godet but, are they really going for this amount these days?

Tim

[Brian Wolfe]

I know of some very high priced dealers near me and they've sold these for a lot less than that.

We were discussing such prices here on the Japan section resently; people will pay crazy prices if they just HAVE to have an item.

Glad I got mine.

Regards

Brian

[Tim B]

Hi Brian,

Well, I don't have mine (Godet) yet, and at that rate, I guess I won't either. I see dealers routinely asking +$350. for these and that's high enough IMO, but this...

Tim

[demir]

Hi,

For me even the condition is not good enough.

The top three bidders are always bidding very high especially the second bidder.

The buyer is a new comer and collecting and artificially increasing prices.

The third bidder is a dealer from the USA.

[Tim B]

Hi Demir,

Yes, I personally would want a better conditioned one as well, but compared to all the ones recently being sold with chipped enamel, missing pins, etc., this one wasn't bad and you don't see the marked Godet ones that often. Still, IMHO, I don't think this one was worth much over $250. but that's me.

As far as the bidders go, I often wonder about these guys that bid really high, or continually bid the item up and up and then never win any auctions. I bet some of these are just playing around and bid the prices up to then walk away happy to see someone else payed through the nose for an item. And, if they get the winning bid, then never pay. I imagine there are some proxy bidders as well.

I have seen this in the area of Victory Medals a lot and as Brian pointed out, in the Japanese medal area as well. I know of one collector/dealer in Israel that bids prices up all the time and then walks away often. He does get stuff too, but I suspect he bids up as much as he can to increase the "value" of his collection by artificially inflating market prices.

You just have to be able to control the urge to hit the bid button and know when to walk away.

Tim

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Demir,

Yes, I personally would want a better conditioned one as well, but compared to all the ones recently being sold with chipped enamel, missing pins, etc., this one wasn't bad and you don't see the marked Godet ones that often. Still, IMHO, I don't think this one was worth much over $250. but that's me.

As far as the bidders go, I often wonder about these guys that bid really high, or continually bid the item up and up and then never win any auctions. I bet some of these are just playing around and bid the prices up to then walk away happy to see someone else payed through the nose for an item. And, if they get the winning bid, then never pay. I imagine there are some proxy bidders as well.

I have seen this in the area of Victory Medals a lot and as Brian pointed out, in the Japanese medal area as well. I know of one collector/dealer in Israel that bids prices up all the time and then walks away often. He does get stuff too, but I suspect he bids up as much as he can to increase the "value" of his collection by artificially inflating market prices.

You just have to be able to control the urge to hit the bid button and know when to walk away.

Tim

Hi Tim,

There is a dirty trick that some sellers on eBay,and probably other online auctions as well, pull. They get friends to bid up their items to get a better price. There is a collector here in my little town who was (and probably still is) doing this on a regular basis. He told me about it and even said that he had other eBay seller ID's (one under his wife's maiden name and used his mother-in-law's address) and at times ran the bid up himself. The "deal" was if you bid his item up and won then so be it, no loss except he had to pay the selling fee. In live auctions this also happens and around here you can see these "shill bidders" as they are the roust-abouts who help move furniture and larger items on and off the auction floor.

He asked me to run some bids up and I told him it was unethical and broke the rules of the auction house and betrayed the trust of the purchaser. Well, one word lead to another and not only are we not friends he won't even speak to me if we run into one another on the street (and in a small town that happens). No loss as he is a pure (censored).

I wonder if this is what is happening to these high bids? There is a lot of dirty dealing and sneaky things done just to possess an item. Reminds me of Gollum and his "precious". Not very flatering for a would-be gentleman is it? But we don't have that problem here...do we?

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

To be clear that last post was NOT directed at anyone in particular.

I got thinking after I posted it that members might misunderstand.

Believe me if I'm going to rip a strip off someone they will know it

Regards

Brian.

[murat2010]

I too have beenn quite upset at the ridiculous prices being asked and payed for for some items that are way higher than their current market value. (Mind you i said market value, as i as a collector believe these pieces to be priceless sentimenally). Not naming any sites, there is one particular site that is asking for ridiculous prices in the way of Ottoman orders and medals, and other sellers are using his prices to stir up false knowledge when pitching to a potential buyer. Where does it end, well my friends , friends of similar values and like minds are all that are needed. (A few good Gentleman).

with regards

Murat

[TerryG]

I did toy with the idea of bidding on the above star but would not have paid anything as much as that!

Saying that, our Turkish friends here will no doubt confirm that Turkish collectors are now prepared to pay much more for TWM than they were only 3 or 4 years ago. I remember getting few BB TWM's in Istanbul for about US$100 each......impossible now!

[Tim B]

Yes, the availability of period original items are decreasing and the market prices are only going to go up with more demand. It's not like they're making any more (original items at least).

Still, you can find them once in awhile and hopefully with not too much competition. Hard to compete with those with deep pockets and the urge to get everything. Oh well.

Tim

[Brian Wolfe]

My wife and I were discussing this very topic over this morning's coffee and came to a bit of a conclusion.

While it is true that there are more and more collectors all of the time and the supply is therefore not as plentiful as it was several years ago there is another contributing factor.

As the baby boomers are moving closer and closer to retirement age they have everything paid for, the kids have been educated and for the most part have left the "nest" etc. This leaves them with more expendable income than ever before. Along with this many are still employed so that increases the amount of money available to dedicate to their hobbies. What a few years ago was unattainable is now well within their grasp. The other factor is that since they have done without, in order to meet other financial commitments, that speciman may now be seen as a goal that is going to be reached at any cost.

This plus the factor that many countries are experiencing an increase in wealth due to the global economy and are "buying back" the medals, decorations and orders of their countries. It all adds to increasing the price of staying in the hobby; a hobby that was never for those with limited incomes in the first place.

Of course that never dissuaded most of us anyway.

Regards

Brian

[RedMaestro]

I did toy with the idea of bidding on the above star but would not have paid anything as much as that!

Saying that, our Turkish friends here will no doubt confirm that Turkish collectors are now prepared to pay much more for TWM than they were only 3 or 4 years ago. I remember getting few BB TWM's in Istanbul for about US$100 each......impossible now!

Since I'm going to Istanbul in about a week and I would really love to pick up one of these stars, how much does a completely average one (no rare variation or anything special about it) sell for these days? This is way outside my field of expertise, so I have not a clue.

Alex

[ottomanmedal]

Since I'm going to Istanbul in about a week and I would really love to pick up one of these stars, how much does a completely average one (no rare variation or anything special about it) sell for these days? This is way outside my field of expertise, so I have not a clue.

Alex

Well Alex,i am pretty sure that our collector friend Demir will find you a very nice star for a resonable price since he lives in Turkey and thinks that we are bidding very high.

[demir]

Hello Alex,

I suggest Mr. Avsar Ibar (GMIC Member), who has a nice medal shop in the Covered Bazaar. I called him and told him to get in touch with you.

While you are in Turkey if you have time, try to see Canakkale (Gallipoli).

Best wihes

Demir

[Tim B]

Alex,

Good luck and whatever you do end up getting, make sure you post it here so we can all enjoy and drool over it!

[Tim B]

Alex,

Good luck and whatever you do end up getting, make sure you post it here so we can all enjoy and drool over it!

[RedMaestro]

Thanks, all, for your replies! Thank you especially, Demir, for making that call! I sent Mr. Ibar an email that I will be visiting his shop in a few days. I will certainly post whatever I pick up!

Alex

[murat2010]

Hey guys, i think i just saw that same TWM again up for auction on ebay.

[demir]

I just seen this sell for $665.00!!

I understand it's a nice conditioned Godet but, are they really going for this amount these days?

Tim

It seems that the buyer did not pay $665.00!!, it is on sale again !!!!!!

Item number:380241636240

[TerryG]

Well spotted Murat and Demir! Maybe the buyer finally saw sense and realised he would be mad to pay that sort of price!

Edited June 11, 2010 by TerryG

[Tim B]

Or, as I suspect, just another case where these bidders that never have any intentions of actually buying/paying for an item, jack up the price to ridiculous levels and walk away laughing. I do see this play out quite a bit on ebay and nothing ever appears to happen to them.

Never know too, if the seller has a shill bidder. You might be surprised how often I get a "second-chance offer" for the amount of the second highest bid price and I just tell the seller to relist it. They usually find someone that just has to have it, but I am immediately suspicious when this happens.

Tim

Edited June 11, 2010 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Also note, that this seller is a consignment seller:

SIMPLY SOLD IS NOT THE OWNER OR SELLER OF THESE GOODS, BUT MERELY A BAILEE ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE SELLER TO FACILITATE THE SALE OF THE GOODS BY HOLDING THE GOODS UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A SALE IS COMPLETED AND THE GOODS ARE SHIPPED TO THE BUYER.

Looks like buyer beware would be good advice here. I see this happening with a couple of U.K. dealers as well; listing their items on ebay through another seller (for higher prices of course) and then if one sells the item, they notify the other to pull it. Pays to shop around.

Tim

Edited June 11, 2010 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Well, as expected the price is being bumped up by a couple of "new" bidders (<30 days with that user ID) that have either a (0) or (1) by their names. A couple of repeat bidders and another "private" one as well. I won't be bidding at this point with all that potential ...

Tim

Edited June 15, 2010 by Tim B

[demir]

I am also very suspicious about the sellers who are "private". One can not see what they sold or buy. Why PRIVATE? Why not open to evrybody? Suspicious.

But the company is getting better and accepted my argument in two cases and refunded the money paid.(Although the seller did not accept).

I suggest everybody be cautious about the Private sellers.

demir

[Tim B]

Definately!! I agree, though I have had some good deals with "private" sellers, I am always suspicious and quite wary when dealing with them. I also get suspicious when a seller makes the article "private" post-auction and you can't go back and see what was sold. Why? Does he have another one of the same??

Then again, I have been burnt by the guys with 100% positive ratings as well!

Thanks Demir!!

Tim