Ok.. the last bar got trashed. how about these two

[mravery]

Hello boys,

After the first 1870 bar was torn apart... I thought I would through these two to the wolves also

Bavarian bar.....

1) 1870 bars ...... good/bad ?

2) Long service... but no long service... why ?

Anhalt bar

1) like.. dont like.. and why ?

Cheers

Mark

[mravery]

Anhalt bar

[Daniel Murphy]

Mark,

The first bar looks like it could be real. I would think the Bav. 1866 cross would have been in front of the 1870 though. The vet would have had to be about 60 or older (likely much older) in 1905 and probably retired before WW1. Perhaps his LS were on the old style (pre 1913) clasps pinned on the uniform. The second bar looks bad, real bad. Some of the ribbons look too new, they are mounted in different ways, and what is up with those hooks. They do not even look like the medal hooks you normally see on bars. I believe the medals and orders are real, just made up in a fake mounting with some fake ribbon. Please tell me you didn't buy this one.

Dan Murphy

[Guest Rick Research]

The 1870-71 bars are correct for the Ist Bavarian Army Corps. See bars listing posted at:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3794

The post-1905 (flames between the arms) Military Merit Order 4th Class is NOT correct. Nothing here indicates that this was an officer on active duty after 1905.

In fact, the silver (quite nice, and hard to find) CIVIL (all red ribbon) Luitpold Jubilee Medal 1905-12 in second place indicates that the wearer was NOT an officer-- or as a surviving old commissioned veteran of the Franco-Prussian war, he would have received a bronze medal on the military ribbon. That means that what was in first place was the M1866 Military Merit CROSS (blue enamel arms, no flames) for enlisted ranks, and which was authorized for retroactive wartime swords in 1891.

The mounting is correct. The "Reichs" 1870-71 War Medal took precedence over the "Royal" 1866.

There is no long service because almost certainly the former enlisted reserves or regular soldier (made quite good for a silver Jubilee, but not good enough for any other decoration-- so possibly a bigwig in a Veterans Association or the like) had an LD2 or the IX, or XV-- and there would be no medal version for those brooches until 1913. This bar thus dates 1905-13-- the ABSENCE of a long service tells us that. Every 19th century draftee with war service earned the LD2, automatically.

Aside from the incorrectly replaced first award (which clips in and out from the looks of it), a nice bar and easy enough--if expensive-- to fix with a M1866 MMC with Xs.

The Anhalt bar is a horror. Medal for enlisted men (with no long service) and TWO WW1 Orders--indicating rose FROM being that enlisted man to a CAPTAIN level during the war?

Uh, no.

Anhalt is obscure enough that I do not know whether two grades with swords even COULD be worn together, but usual practice (unfair as it was) in most states REPLACED a lower "same same" when a higher was awarded.

What a waste of original awards-- and one wonders what REAL bars were butchered for this Frankenstein monster.

The BACKS are absolutely essential in vetting medal bars these days. Never buy from strangers without a reverse side view.

Oh, and BTW? Any cretin who puts a sticky label on the front of ribbons like that should be crucified. In front of his horrified children. And then boiled while still alive in a slowly warmed vat full of leeches, under a glass dome full of enraged hornets.

Yeesh.

[mravery]

Hey Guys,

No.... I did not buy either of these... though I really liked the Bavarian one.... and until Rick pointed out issues with the MVO I was seriously considering it but not now ( I don't need another 'project' to work on to restore the bar).

I REALLY like the medal bars from the 1870-1914 range.... anything before WWI... and I liked all the 1870 bars

I thought that the Anhalt was cute.. but was not sure about the awards...... And here is a pic of the reverse. I don't have a reverse of the Bavarian.

Cheers

Mark

[Stogieman]

There's a slightly damaged 1905 BMVK on eBay.de now. Under 300- Euro, last time I looked....... A crisp clean, undamaged one will set you back close to a G-Note.......

Here's an example of what you're looking for:

[Stogieman]

Reverse. Awarded 1866-1905 only.

[Stogieman]

Note that this early piece is correct on the white/blue Statutory ribbon...... post 1913, the "war ribbon" could be worn with the MVK

[mravery]

Hey Rick,

Yeah... I've been watching that one, has about 3 days to go or so...

The last one that was listed last month went for about 400 euro I think (also had some enamal damage as well)...

I was curious about Rick's comment (not you.... the evil one).. that this was an MVK for enlisted... I'm confused (easilly done) as I thought that the all enamel ones were for officers and not enlisted.

Cheers

Mark

[Stogieman]

Nope, the very first version of the MVK of the MVO (a purely enlisted/"other ranks") award was enameled. The 400- Euro one was damaged as well, if I remember correctly? I would not worry about damage, more the rule than the exception. I've seen 6 total, the one I had was the only undamaged one......

[Bob Hunter]

Where are you coming across items like this?

[mravery]

Hey Bob,

Another collector I know is selling off some of his bars.

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello folks:

Please note that the swords for the Anhalt Order of Albert the Bear are without any doubt forgeries. All original awards had swords which were much longer. These forgeries (added to genuine and counterfeit badges) have been around for awhile. See Neil O'Connors opus Volume V., page 252. The two pieces shown at the top of the page have counterfeit swords, the piece at the bottom of the page is original (or of the proper dimensions like originals). Gerd Scharfenberg's superb 1999 "Die Orden und Ehrenzeichen der Anhaltischen Staaten" shows examples of original badges and medals of the Order with swords, and ALL of them have the "longer" swords.

Thanks,

Schie?platzmeister

[Stogieman]

Interesting observation on the swords. Thanks!

[Daniel Murphy]

Hey, I was not far off the mark. Thanks to Stogie and Rick, I'm learning a liitle more with each post.

Dan Murphy

[Stogieman]

Hi Dan, thanks to everybody....... we're all still on the learning curve. Especially me!

[mravery]

Urggg....

Perhaps I need to stay with tunics and leave all these 'bright and shiney' items to you guys.... At least I know a good tunic when I see it.....

I wonder if there is any good stuff out there

Cheers

Mark

p.s. Rick... I love the trademark that you have after the Evil Ones name

[Bob Hunter]

Don't be discouraged, Mark. Stick around and keep trying. Imagine how bad your collector friend must feel as he learns some of his treasures are bogus. At least you have the benefit of the forum. There are plenty of righteous medal bars available for purchase and you'll find some you can't live without.