Fake 2 More FAKE Medjidie Breast Stars ...

[avsaribar]

Dear Collectors ,

Right now , this time there are 2 fake Medjidie Breast Stars are for sale on the well known page .

Item numbers ; 190453751343 from France and 280571884789 from Turkey.

Both of them are fake and so interesting the seller from France mentioned that "GUARANTEED ORIGINAL" ... shame on him , and this kind of people...

For the new collectors , i kindly ask you , please be careful...

All the best ,

Avsar IBAR

PS: Just a very small and easy tip , If you are new , and do not know deep , please be far , if you see "PINK" color enamel on the Medjidie orders.. It must be Red , maybe different levels of red , but it must be red , NOT pink.

[QSAMIKE]

Hi Avsar IBAR

Thanks I was looking at them.......

Just for your info take a look at this group......

Mike

[avsaribar]

Hello Dear Mike ,

You are welcome , i just check the picture you posted , sorry but the resolution of the picture is not very high ,

but i can see an Original 4th Class Medjidie Order on the right side.

Cheers ,

Avsar IBAR

[palencia]

Avsar, thank you for warning about this fakes.

What do you think about this osmanie order: 250709386882 ?

Best regards

Enrique

[Josef Rietveld]

Dear Avsar, you are absolutely right - both are copies.

Maybe we should ask the seller? We have a GMIC-clubmember called linasl.

I guess he is maybe the seller on ebay.

josef

[avsaribar]

Hello Joseph ,

Yeah , maybe you are right we have to ask him , maybe he also doesnt know what he is selling...

All the best ,

Avsar IBAR

[avsaribar]

By the way , item number : 280574223940 this one looks OK !

[avsaribar]

Item number 200487736631 , Osmanie Set OK !! Original , but it is not GRAND cross as mentioned , it is 2nd Class Order Of Osmanie Set.

[demir]

Hi,

One of the old fake medal sellers "abilge" changed his eby idendity into: "hattersteaclub ( Feedback Score Of 0 ) "

and emerged again (sometimes from Australia and other times Belgium) : items: 160493243376 and 160493230687.

Beware of these sellers:

( dursen51, cinare2006, moys-10 )using these names

( abilge, hattersteaclub ) using these names

dominique.8

guryil

Edited October 15, 2010 by demir

[demir]

They like to sell Mecidi and Osmani Orders mainly.

Edited October 14, 2010 by demir

[Linasl]

Hello. I am the seller LINASL. I am offended by these posts, especially those that attack my character. If you check my feedback on the site someone mentioned, it is 99.9% - 1 negative out of over 6200 positives, and the negative came from someone who never received his package AND I refunded his money. He was just a cruel individual.

As for the Breast Star, let me first mention that I purchased it from a Turkish colleague who stated to me it was from his great grandfather. He even showed me a photo of his great grandfather wearing the Star. I had no reason to believe it is not original, even though I am not an expert in Ottoman medals. For the individual who started this thread saying my star has "pink" in the center, this is blatantly incorrect. Look at the photos again - it is RED. Maybe my lighting is not the best, but it is NOT pink.

The other two Ottoman medals I have listed came from the same individual, but I see no mention here that those two are fake as well. So how do all you "experts" reconcile the disparity? Also, why are there bidders who ARE experts in militaria and have very high feedback scores even bidding on this Breast Star? I know many of the bidders and have been doing business with them for quite a few years. Please explain because I am dumbfounded by the negativity I see on this post by my "fellow experts" - yes, that is intended sarcasm.

As for the sarcastic member (and wholly ungentlemanlike) who quipped that my Breast Star is "GUARANTEED ORIGINAL" as if I was some kind of crooked dealer - you seemed to forget to complete the paragraph. I DO guarantee originality. If, once you receive the item, a recognized expert determines that it is NOT original, I will refund ALL your money 100% - including postage fees. So yes, I do "GUARANTEE ORIGINAL."

As for the individual who listed my eBay pseudo as a seller you should avoid, I am left speechless. What gives you the right to libel me in such a way given the many thousands of successful trnasactions I have had selling on that site for 10 years? You do not know me, nor the amount of research time I spend to make sure what I list is real and proper.

Lastly, if by chance my Breast Star is NOT original, I will gladly refund the winner's money. If YOU don't believe it is original - DON'T BID - it is that simple.

Now all you "experts" can have your "enjoyment" rebutting my comments here. I know some of you will because you appear to be just as cruel as the ONE individual who left a negative mark on my otherwise PERFECT feedback score.

Thank you. Linas

[Linasl]

Hello Dear Mike ,

You are welcome , i just check the picture you posted , sorry but the resolution of the picture is not very high ,

but i can see an Original 4th Class Medjidie Order on the right side.

Cheers ,

Avsar IBAR

Hello Avsar.

Based on this member's photo you are able to 100% determine his 4th Class Medjidie Order on the right side is ORIGINAL?

How can you make this determination when you cannot even see it up close?

Linas

[Linasl]

Greetings once again. Just to make sure I am not going crazy, I went back to look at all the bidders on the Breast Star in question. As I thought I remembered, one of the bidders (but not the highest) is one of the most recognized experts in military medals in the US. He has written FIVE books on the subject, including one solely on Breast Stars. I cannot mention his name out of privacy, but his last name starts with a "V". If you are an aficionado of medals, you should recognize this individual.

So why would HE be bidding if the Breast Star is a fake? Is he not an expert and just stupid? Or is there the slightest of possiblities that those of you who so callously belittled me, my pseudo, and my Breast Star may be wrong? Even if you are wrong, I do not expect any one of you to admit to such a personal mistake.

Thus, I have no intention of removing the Breast Star and I stand by my assertion that it IS original.

Thank you. Linas

[Josef Rietveld]

Dear Linas,as i wrote in personal conversation, IMHO your stars corpus (body) is cast and not made of pierced

elements that are later assembled. I own such typ of copy (GO-Star) myself, that i once bought as declared copy. I tried now several times to make pictures of an original and the copy as comparism but i failed with the GMIC-Upload-Limit (110 k).

So the pictures i show now won't be significant enough.

regards

Josef

[Josef Rietveld]

reverse

Edited October 15, 2010 by Josef Rietveld

[avsaribar]

Dear Linas ,

Thank you very much for your posts , but i do not care who bid to your "Breast Star , which kind of collector or expert they are ,

I respect to everyones knowledge and choice but your Medjidie Breast Star is GUARANTEE FAKE !!

1 - If you want to give right to me , please go to some Metal Casting workshop , they are going to confirm that all the body is made by casting method.

2 - Please look at the Brilliant cuts on the silver , they have to be sharp , but yours are extremely smooth..

3 - I am saying again that your enamel is PINKISH !! NOT RED AS IT MUST BE.

4 - The weldings to the needles are made very amateur way , which it musnt be...

5 - You can not see that kind of Long Needles on an Original Medjidie Breast Star.

6 - Your stars patina can be easily understood with proffesional eyes that it is later made with chemicals.

7 - On the center , you can see 4 sheets , attached on the red enamel , (they are also enameled , written on them "Year 1268" ,"Enthusiasm" , "Patriotism" and "Loyalty" ) , the distance between them are not proper , usually you can see this mistake on the fake ones , end of the ones on the right side nearly touching each other , but the right to is seperate..

My family and me , we are collecting Ottoman orders till 25 Years and we have a Antique & Jewellery shop in Istanbul - Turkey since 1983 .

I am a member of Turkish Numismatique Associaiton , and i wrote many articles about the Ottoman orders in Turkish Local Numismatique magazines..

And also you mentioned that "Composition : Gold - Silver and enamel" please check it in a gold smith , if you will any miligram of "Solid Gold" in that order , i promise to you here , i will send you an original one like present , all the yellow parts of your order are silver.

Please do not understand my opinions to your personality , i am sorry if i wrote something wrong.

Kind Regards,

Avsar Ibar

Ibar Jewellery & Antiques

PS: You can compare your 2nd Class Breast Star with the below 2nd Class Breast Star.

[Linasl]

Hello Josef.

Thank you for your gentile response. It is a pleasant break from the spiteful comments above.

I see what you are saying, but I still stand behind my comments. Your photos are OK though.

Thanks. Linas

[Linasl]

Dear Linas ,

Thank you very much for your posts , but i do not care who bid to your "Breast Star , which kind of collector or expert they are ,

I respect to everyones knowledge and choice but your Medjidie Breast Star is GUARANTEE FAKE !!

1 - If you want to give right to me , please go to some Metal Casting workshop , they are going to confirm that all the body is made by casting method.

2 - Please look at the Brilliant cuts on the silver , they have to be sharp , but yours are extremely smooth..

3 - I am saying again that your enamel is PINKISH !! NOT RED AS IT MUST BE.

4 - The weldings to the needles are made very amateur way , which it musnt be...

5 - You can not see that kind of Long Needles on an Original Medjidie Breast Star.

6 - Your stars patina can be easily understood with proffesional eyes that it is later made with chemicals.

7 - On the center , you can see 4 sheets , attached on the red enamel , (they are also enameled , written on them "Year 1268" ,"Enthusiasm" , "Patriotism" and "Loyalty" ) , the distance between them are not proper , usually you can see this mistake on the fake ones , end of the ones on the right side nearly touching each other , but the right to is seperate..

My family and me , we are collecting Ottoman orders till 25 Years and we have a Antique & Jewellery shop in Istanbul - Turkey since 1983 .

I am a member of Turkish Numismatique Associaiton , and i wrote many articles about the Ottoman orders in Turkish Local Numismatique magazines..

And also you mentioned that "Composition : Gold - Silver and enamel" please check it in a gold smith , if you will any miligram of "Solid Gold" in that order , i promise to you here , i will send you an original one like present , all the yellow parts of your order are silver.

Please do not understand my opinions to your personality , i am sorry if i wrote something wrong.

Kind Regards,

Avsar Ibar

Ibar Jewellery & Antiques

PS: You can compare your 2nd Class Breast Star with the below 2nd Class Breast Star.

Hello Avsar.

Thank you for your note. At least it is more civil than previous posts.

When I look at the photos you provided, I personally do not see a difference to the one I have. Maybe I do not have an expert eye like you have, but it does not change my mind.

Unforunately I am NOT an expert in Ottoman medals, but I do not understand why known experts are bidding on the one I have listed. This shall remain a mystery, I guess.

Linas

[demir]

Dear Linas,as i wrote in personal conversation, IMHO your stars corpus (body) is cast and not made of pierced

elements that are later assembled. I own such typ of copy (GO-Star) myself, that i once bought as declared copy. I tried now several times to make pictures of an original and the copy as comparism but i failed with the GMIC-Upload-Limit (110 k).

So the pictures i show now won't be significant enough.

regards

Josef

Hello Josef,

They are good enough to get an idea.

There is another very easy way to understand which is real and which is not:

The real Mecidi Order first and second class have two layer rays on top of each other and have crescent and star in between the longest rays, like the one you have on the left side of the picture. The other have the crescent and star on top of the first layer rays and have long pins.

I don't know why, but they usually produce it that way, so they can claim later that it is made as a souvenir item. One can say that, perhaps the top layer was reeligned because it became loose. Maybe! but untill this date when I see similar orders, I do not look twice.

demir

Edited October 15, 2010 by demir

[Linasl]

Hello Josef,

They are good enough to get an idea.

There is another very easy way to understand which is real and which is not:

The real Mecidi Order first and second class have two layer rays on top of each other and have crescent and star in between the longest rays, like the one you have on the left side of the picture. The other have the crescent and star on top of the first layer rays and have long pins.

I don't know why, but they usually produce it that way, so they can claim later that it is made as a souvenir item. One can say that, perhaps the top layer was reeligned because it became loose. Maybe! but untill this date when I see similar orders, I do not look twice.

demir

Hello Demir.

I would graciously ask you to remove my name from your "Beware of these sellers" list. I believe it is inappropriate and demeaning. Your choice.

Thank you. Linas

[Josef Rietveld]

Hello Josef,

They are good enough to get an idea.

There is another very easy way to understand which is real and which is not:

The real Mecidi Order first and second class have two layer rays on top of each other and have crescent and star in between the longest rays, like the one you have on the left side of the picture. The other have the crescent and star on top of the first layer rays and have long pins.

I don't know why, but they usually produce it that way, so they can claim later that it is made as a souvenir item. One can say that, perhaps the top layer was reeligned because it became loose. Maybe! but untill this date when I see similar orders, I do not look twice.

demir

Greetings demir, this IS a very good hint, i will keep it in mind. Ich checked my other two Go-Stars and the layers are all synchronized.

josef

[avsaribar]

Hi Again ,

It is ok for today but maybe not for tomorrow. I saw originals like " The Star on the longest ray ones.. "

It is just about to align the upper level. Tomorrow they can move it ( turn it )a little and...

All the best ,

Avsar Ibar

[Great Dane]

Dear Linasl,

Before all this gets too un-gentlemanlike, let me just point out a couple of thing that suggests that the "suspicion" may be self-inflicted:

1. You started a lot of posts showing objects from all over the world, and always asking the same very basic question.

HINT: This could indicate a seller who doesn't care what he has, but just want some text for his eBay auctions.

2. When someone in here asked why you didn't do any research yourself (even Googling), you claimed that you lived in France and french bookshops didn't have many books about medals/orders (or something similar). Hmm... last time I checked, eBay, Amazon etc. etc. were happy to deliver anything to most parts of the world...

So you could be an absolute OK collector/seller (and I'll still be happy to answer any questions you may have on danish ODMs), but you can't really blame the members in here for thinking "What is this guy up to?"

Just my 2 cents...

/Michael

[Linasl]

Hello Michael.

I appreciate your honest response - even if it is a bit of a critique. Sometimes I need to hear that.

I buy medals from all over the world, so it is impossible for me to be an expert on all. That is why I turn to THIS Forum for knowledge - always asking the same questions, because all are always relevant.

As it regards to helping me write my descriptions, absolutely! Is there something wrong with that? I want expertise, so I turn to the GMIC membership for help. And I always acknowledge my assistance from this Forum, even in adding the Forum's website address to attract more collectors to the GMIC. I do not believe I am doing a disservice to the GMIC - quite the opposite.

But I DO understand your comments and I appreciate your candor.

As for the lack of bookstores, I honestly don't recall that. If I said that, I retract it. Most of my research is on the internet. There are MANY great sites - even for this Breast Star. I saw MANY photos of this Star and they looked VERY similar to mine. Thus, I made the simple deduction that mine is authentic. Did I make an error? I hope not, but others believe I did.

So where do we go from here? Well, I plan on continuing to reach out to the GMIC membership in assisting in my research. If some members are "turned off" by my requests for info, I understand and accept this hesitance. But to me there is no better source - which is a compliment to you, to the other members, and to the creators of this Forum.

Lastly, for those wondering "What is this guy up to?" - I am just trying to make an honest living by buying and selling medals I believe people will be interested in. I may not always get it right (and I "fix" that to the extent possible), but I always try to be as honest and forthright as possible. Just look at ALL the feedback comments I have. I have clients who have been buying from me for 10 years, and keep coming back for more. I believe I am a good guy who tries to offer a wide variety of medals that are of interest to all kinds of different people.

In closing, I again want to thank you for your analysis of me. I believe it is fair and balanced. I though hope my explanation above serves to calm nerves of those participating in this thread. But I know that you can never satisfy everone all the time.

Take care. Linas

[murat2010]

Hello my friends,

Would Mr Avsar or Mr Demir evaluate my breast star as i am eager to make sure it is an original. I purchased it from a dealer in Germany, not from our favourite web site. It is worthy to note that this breast star also has a sash badge with light green stripes which are pre WW1.

Thank you

Murat

Edited October 15, 2010 by murat2010