Jaybo Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Gentlemen, Can anyone tell me the German equivalent for KIA or as the French say it 'mort pour la France'? I have a deathcard and medals to a Gefreiter in the Bavarian Leib Regiment/Alpenkorps. Secondly, how tough is it to find if he has a known grave as one can readily discover from the British War Graves Commission website. My gentleman's name was Johann Baptist Mistbilger who was KIA on 30 April 1918 during the KaiserSchlacht. He was from Ranoldsberg, Bavaria. Thanks for all the experten out there. Jay Stone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Gentlemen, Can anyone tell me the German equivalent for KIA or as the French say it 'mort pour la France'? I have a deathcard and medals to a Gefreiter in the Bavarian Leib Regiment/Alpenkorps. Secondly, how tough is it to find if he has a known grave as one can readily discover from the British War Graves Commission website. My gentleman's name was Johann Baptist Mistbilger who was KIA on 30 April 1918 during the KaiserSchlacht. He was from Ranoldsberg, Bavaria. Thanks for all the experten out there. Jay Stone Hello Jay: The word in German for fallen in battle is "Gefallen". "Heldentod fürs Vaterland" ("Died bravely for the Fatherland") was often used during WWI as were various other phrases. Here are two links to the German War Graves Commission equivalent: http://www.volksbund.de/kurzprofil/homepage_en.asp http://www.volksbund.de/kurzprofil/homepage.asp Good luck with your quest. "SPM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Gentlemen, Can anyone tell me the German equivalent for KIA or as the French say it 'mort pour la France'? I have a deathcard and medals to a Gefreiter in the Bavarian Leib Regiment/Alpenkorps. Secondly, how tough is it to find if he has a known grave as one can readily discover from the British War Graves Commission website. My gentleman's name was Johann Baptist Mistbilger who was KIA on 30 April 1918 during the KaiserSchlacht. He was from Ranoldsberg, Bavaria. Thanks for all the experten out there. Jay Stone Hello again Jay: I believe that the "Kaiser's Battle" was long over by April 30, 1918. I believe that the date should read 30. März 1918 if he actually fell during the Kaisersschlacht. Or, perhaps he died later of wounds received during the "Kaiser's Battle". If you post a scan of the SB (death card) there are plenty of folks here that can help you determine what the meaning is. What awards came with the grouping? "SPM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybo Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hello SPM, He won the Eiserne Kreuz II and the Bayern Verdienst Kreuz III acccording to the deathcard. The medals did NOT come with the card. I have added an old orginal bar grouping to frame with the card, Alpenkorps medal and the widow's cross. He is pictured in his dress (pre-War?) Leib Regiment uniform with the Guard lace on the collar and cuffs. I can't tell whether he has the Leib Regiment 'kronen' on the shoulder boards or not. He was a member of the 1st Battalion, Minenwerfer Kompagnie (one of the gentlemen who dealt ou the 'screaming minnies' to the Allies no doubt!). He was 'Gefallen' on 30 April 1918. I was not aware that the Spring Offensive was technically over so early (my error). All the best, Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hello SPM, He won the Eiserne Kreuz II and the Bayern Verdienst Kreuz III acccording to the deathcard. The medals did NOT come with the card. I have added an old orginal bar grouping to frame with the card, Alpenkorps medal and the widow's cross. He is pictured in his dress (pre-War?) Leib Regiment uniform with the Guard lace on the collar and cuffs. I can't tell whether he has the Leib Regiment 'kronen' on the shoulder boards or not. He was a member of the 1st Battalion, Minenwerfer Kompagnie (one of the gentlemen who dealt ou the 'screaming minnies' to the Allies no doubt!). He was 'Gefallen' on 30 April 1918. I was not aware that the Spring Offensive was technically over so early (my error). All the best, Jay Hello again Jay: You are correct, technically the "Kaisersschlacht" continue into July (MY mistake). In reality, during Operation Michael, starting on March 21, 1918, significant gains were made initially, but once the momentum stopped a few hours/days later (depending on the location on the front), all hope of victory was inevitably lost for Germany. I believe that the Ardennes Offensive in WWII was a tactical parallel. It sounds like your display piece will be very nice when you are finished with it. Congratulations. "SPM" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybo Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hello again Jay: You are correct, technically the "Kaisersschlacht" continue into July (MY mistake). In reality, during Operation Michael, starting on March 21, 1918, significant gains were made initially, but once the momentum stopped a few hours/days later (depending on the location on the front), all hope of victory was inevitably lost for Germany. I believe that the Ardennes Offensive in WWII was a tactical parallel. It sounds like your display piece will be very nice when you are finished with it. Congratulations. "SPM" Thanks again SPM. Your thoughts are very much appreciated. I love this site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
army historian Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I always though it was "Kaput". Cheers Captain Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi, technically the kaiserschlacht were the springoffensives, but it is often used to refer to Operation Michael. You guy was killed in the Kemmel region, one day after the end of "Georgette". Can you post a scan of the name? Mistbilger is not a name and I assume there is an error somewhere along the line. Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybo Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi Chris, Thanks for the input. I believe the deathcard to be authentic (who would want to fake those unless we are talking Richtofen,etc). The name as on the card is: " Joh. Bapt. Mif(s?)tbilger ". I assume that the Gothic 'f' actually stands for an 's' as in "Burgermeiftersfohn von Ranoldsberg", which also is present on the card (I took French not German in college!). As far as scanning it, I'm not that computer savy although maybe my wife can help in that regard. If you would like, I could mail one to you. I'll look up Operation Georgette and the action around Kemmel to see the deployment of his regiment and the Alpenkorps. I really enjoy finding out about the real 'flesh on the bones' stuff in military history. Back in 2007, my best friend and I did 'Back to the Front: Part II' by re-visiting several portions of the Western Front. One venture was to track down a Battle of the Somme casulty (whose medals I own) as to where he died. He was KIA on 14 July 1916 during the Battle of Bazentin Ridge. He was a member of the 7th Battalion, Leicester Regt. His name is on the Thiepval Memorial. To walk the field where his unit started from during that pre-dawn attack to where it ended in the woods was something. We are hoping to visit Germany/Austria/Czech Republic later this year (for mostly Napoleonic era battlefields). I thought that we would check out Ranoldsberg while we are in Bavaria. All the best, Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Jay I checked the rather huge history of the Leib-Regiment; The Minenwerfer-Kompagnie was a regimental asset and not a part of 1st Battalion. There are no casualties in the entire regiment who suffered mortal wounds or who were killed in action on 30 April 1918. Six members of the Minenwerfer-Kompagnie were fatally wounded or killed on 29 April 1918. The nearest match listed of those is an Infanterist Johann Mittermeier who succumbed to his wounds on 4 May 1918. Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybo Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hello Glenn, Thanks for you research. I suppose my guy may have been wounded on the 29 0f April and succumbed on the 30th. I'll try scanning the deathcard in a reply this weekend once my wife shows me how. Hopefully that will help. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybo Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Gentlemen, Thank you all very much who have responded. Today, I received confirmation from a gentlemen in my guy's hometown in Bavaria that he is indeed listed on the town plaque for the lost in 'das Weltkrieg'. Unfortunately, I had misinterpreted the spelling of his name. It is actually, Johann Baptist MistHilger (NOT MistBilger). Does this help with your sources? My 'guy in Bavaria' will hopefully follow up with more info. More later God willing mes amis! I love this site and the gentlemen that visit it. a votre sante, Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Jay I checked the regimental history again and still no mention of him. However...when I checked Ancestry.de for the Bavarian Army Stammrollen, Herr Misthilger's documents are there and show him as a member of the Minenwerfer-Kompanie of the Infanterie-Leibregiment and indeed killed on 30 April 1918 at Kemmel. After recruit training he entered the Leib-Regiment in the 7th Company on 25 July 1916. He was transfered to the Minenwerfer-Kompanie on 16 July 1917. He was awarded the EK2 on 24 December 1917 and was promoted to überzähliger (supernumerary) Gefreiter on 28 January 1918. Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybo Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Hi Glenn, Thanks so much for your efforts. It means alot to me. I will have to do some reading on Kemmel now. I was in the general area in 2007 (Ypres Salient). If only I had known then about Gefreiter Misthilger...... Do you have materials which may indicate whether he has a known grave? Thanks. All the best, Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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