Proud Württemberger?

[Noor]

Hi,

I picked up this great photo and I must admit - my knowledge to ID details on the uniform is nil.

Text on the courner "Stuttgard"indicates to me that the owner must be from Württemberg and thats about it. Maybe someone can help me with the rank, unit, etc.

Also what awards he would have on the medal bar?

medal bar

1. ???

2. Württemberg Long Service decoration (???)

3. ribbon at least looks like Franco-Prussian war medal 1870-1871

4. 1866 Austro-Prussian war medal (1848 Schleswig-Holstein campaign commemorative medal ???)

5. ???

6. ???

Any help and ideas would be great!

Thanks,

Timo

Edited January 24, 2011 by Noor

[Chip]

Timo,

He looks to be a Portepee NCO in the "Olga" Grenadier Rgt. Nr. 119.

Chip

[Wild Card]

Hello Noor,

Here is what I see.

1. Württemberg. Gold or silver merit medal. This is a real guess.

2. Württemberg. Long service cross.

3. Prussia. 1870-71 war medal, combatant.

4. Württemberg. 1866 war medal.

5. Württemberg. King Karl 25 year jubilee medal.

I look forward to finding out what #6 is.

Regards,

Wild Card

[Glenn J]

Timo

Portepee-Unteroffizier Württemberg Schloßgarde-Kompanie

Regards

Glenn

[Noor]

Thanks guys! I learned a lot today - good reason to read and study

Thanks again,

Timo

[Chip]

Glenn,

What is the key to determining that? Is it the Offizierdegen a.A., the helmet, the shoulder strap or a combination thereof? I could see what I thought was an "O" on the strap, but the "K" eluded me.

Chip

[Glenn J]

Glenn,

What is the key to determining that? Is it the Offizierdegen a.A., the helmet, the shoulder strap or a combination thereof? I could see what I thought was an "O" on the strap, but the "K" eluded me.

Chip

Hi Chip

I would say the determining factor is the wear of the Überrock with white shoulder straps and the silver Tresse (as per the Prussian pattern for their Schloßgarde-Kompanie). The cypher is rather circular surmounted by a crown. See plate 156 of "Das Deutsche Heer" by Pietsch, Knötel and Collas and this below also from Piestch.

Regards

Glenn

[Noor]

Thanks again! So, Württemberg Schloßgarde-Kompanie

Now the last medal, what is something different.... remainds something French almost. Also mounting is different (probably added later).

[dedehansen]

Hi Timo,

I think no.1 is the Medaille vom Kronenorden von Württemberg the medal ribbon is poncered with small black stripes.

dedehansen

[RAO]

dedehansen,

nice to see you here. ;o)

Regards Mike

[saschaw]

Kronordenmedaille? Maybe. That would make it a gold one. It depends on when he got it: It is a silver or gold civil merit medal (pre-1892) or it is a Kronordenmedaille (which is, actually, the former gold civil merit medal). It cannot be a post-1893 silver merit medal, as that one used another ribbon.

Anyone knows the last one?!

:unsure:

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

Although I suggested above in post #3 that medal #1 might be a gold or silver merit medal, now I am not so sure.

First, the size of the medal bothers me. The gold merit medal is 28 mm. The medal in the picture appears to be larger than the Prussian 1870/71 war medal (29 mm), the Württemberg 1866 war medal (29 mm) and the Württemberg jubilee medal (30 mm). As a matter of fact, it comes close to the Württemberg long service cross which is 34 mm.

Next is the ribbon. To be any one of the civil merit medals, including the medal of the Crown Order, of the era, it strikes me that the background color of the medal in the picture is just too pale. It should be just a bit darker than the background color of the long service cross.

Okay, what is it? Is it not possible that it is not a Württemberg medal after all? I just cannot say, but I did find something interesting that felt I should pass on to you. In going through the ribbon charts, I noticed that the ribbon on #1 could very well be the old style, 1806 - 1818 Württemberg military merit medal ribbon - yellow background with narrow black side stripes. Incidentally, the ribbons on #1 and #6 appear, to me at least, to be identical. Could #6 be some sort of non Württemberg jubilee medal?

Come on Gentlemen, I know that we can solve this one.

Regards,

Wild Card

[saschaw]

I think the light is playing tricks on us. The first medal, which is at least shiny silver, or even shinier gold, is just over-flashed and thus seems to be larger. I'm sure it isn't: it's a Württemberg civil merit or Kronorden medal for sure. The ribbon does match as well in my humble opinion. Purple(?) with narrow black stripes. The purple is totally different to the red of other Württemberg ribbons, especially on old black/white photos. If it were indeed yellow, it were way darker on the picture.

In the mean time, I think I found the last one. Nothing great or special - but I'm glad we could (at least I think so) solve the mystery.

I'll have to ask for permission first, before I'll do and publish a scan.

[saschaw]

From the new and very useful book "Die Württembergischen Medaillen 1864 - 1933 (einschließlich der Orden und Ehrenzeichen)" by Klein and Raff (English: The Württemberg medals 1864 - 1933, including the orders and decorations), that can, if still any are available, be ordered at Uwe Bretzendorfer.

Pages 112/113: 38 mm in diameter, portrait of king Karl, a big wreath around it, the suspension matches... seems to be such a medal by a Württemberg Kriegerverein!

[Wild Card]

:jumping: That has got to be it!

Congratulations, mystery solved. :beer: