British Victory Medals

[RobW]

Rob,

If you ask my which US Divisions vic to collect I would be able answer you with a good reason as to why. UK vic's as you can see I am clueless, but I am interested in obtaining at less one, from each of these countries, ending with letters CEF, NZEF, SAI, AIF. On the countries of India, Ireland and Scotland I am unsure. Of these seven countries listed, what might be the preferred Regiment from each country. (I am looking for just a good representation for each country).

Thanks, JM

Hello JM,

While each of the contributing Commonwealth nations that answered the call of Great Britiain and provided troops etc...for the war effort were as important as the next it would be a bold person to suggest specific individual Regiments from those countries. Such a suggestion could be interpreted as bias. Each collector would inevitably have their own particular area or Regiment of interest and even dealers are similarly inclined. If you were in an Indian Gurkha Regiment you would look to obtain such a specimen, if you were a Scott you would look to obtain a vic from any of the Highland or Lowland Divisions, and so on...

I feel that to attempt to obtain a representative group of vics from each country would be a big task in itself. I would suggest you do some more research on the contributing Divisions from each country and choose a Regiment which interests you. There are a staggering number of different Regiments to choose from so there will be many options of choice. If you look at http://www.1914-1918.net/ it does provide an Order Of Battle with details on these Commonwealth Divisions.

I hope this has helped.

Regards,

Rob

Edited December 12, 2009 by RobW

[johnnymac]

Hello JM,

While each of the contributing Commonwealth nations that answered the call of Great Britiain and provided troops etc...for the war effort were as important as the next it would be a bold person to suggest specific individual Regiments from those countries. Such a suggestion could be interpreted as bias. Each collector would inevitably have their own particular area or Regiment of interest and even dealers are similarly inclined. If you were in an Indian Gurkha Regiment you would look to obtain such a specimen, if you were a Scott you would look to obtain a vic from any of the Highland or Lowland Divisions, and so on...

I feel that to attempt to obtain a representative group of vics from each country would be a big task in itself. I would suggest you do some more research on the contributing Divisions from each country and choose a Regiment which interests you. There are a staggering number of different Regiments to choose from so there will be many options of choice. If you look at http://www.1914-1918.net/ it does provide an Order Of Battle with details on these Commonwealth Divisions.

I hope this has helped.

Regards,

Rob

Thanks for the come back, and I do understand clearly what you are saying, again thanks.

JM

Edited December 12, 2009 by johnnymac

[Noor]

Hi guys,

Here is my single Victory medals... nothing fancy now

First is British Victory Medal - not the best shape but looks better on hand then on this picture, awarded to 3002 Pte R.J.E.BUSCH. S.B.L. (Slavo British Legion)

[Noor]

And finally not the medal but British WW1 trio ribbon bar with the prototype Allied Victory Medal ribbon (sorry if its not the right place to post it)

Edited February 15, 2010 by Noor

[RobW]

Hi guys,

Here is my single Victory medals... nothing fancy now

First is British Victory Medal - not the best shape but looks better on hand then on this picture, awarded to 3002 Pte R.J.E.BUSCH. S.B.L. (Slavo British Legion)

Hello Noor,

Good to see someone other than the usual suspects on this thread.

While the medal has seen better days at least it can be attributed to an individual. Formed in 1919 during the North Russian campaign against the Bolsheviks after the war, the Slavo British Legion had a somewhat interesting history including mutinies and murdering of their British officers. Awards to the Slavo British Legion were accordingly not that prevalent so it is a nice example despite the wear.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

And finally not the medal but British WW1 trio ribbon bar with the prototype Allied Victory Medal ribbon (sorry if its not the right place to post it)

Hello Noor,

This is definitely the place for that ribbon bar. These prototype allied victory medal ribbons were quite often seen on the uniforms of British and Commonwealth troops' uniforms during the victory parade in London in 1919. I have also seen examples with just the British War and early victory medal as seen below.

It is a nice side-point in a victory medal collection especially as the ribbon in question was later replaced by the all to familiar rainbow variety.

Regards,

Rob

[Noor]

Here is few extra Victory medals related items, what I have in my humble collection...

British Victory Medal - G-1834 PTE D MC CORMACK R. IR.FUS..

Bilingual - BURG.P.J.SENEKAL SHUTERLAND KDO.

[Noor]

Revese:

[Noor]

my only mini with the group:

Edited March 12, 2010 by Noor

[Noor]

Hi,

I picked up titems frhis VM from Dublin Coin and Stamps fair and I have a question....

As a new collector of British awards, I would like to ask about the naming - I haven't seen British VM's before, where is only the name on the rim. I was sure there should be Reg No. Rank, Name, Unit/Ship.

How it is possible? Is it awarded to civilian, Police, Red Cross, etc??

Text on the rim; M.L.BUTTERWORTH

[Noor]

Thank you to other forum member to point it out, I think I got owner's MIC already.

So, how common are British VM's for French Red Cross organisation?

[RobW]

So, how common are British VM's for French Red Cross organisation?

Hello Timo,

The awards of the vic to members of the French Red Cross are not common but they do turn up on occassion. In my mind they are a nice addition to any vic collection.

Of note on the Medal Index Card (MIC) the code for the 'Theatre of War first served in' is marked as: 1(a). This is France and Belgium. This would probably indicate she likely served in the large field hospitals in those locations. In addition her date of entry is listed as Oct-18. This, with the struck out mark near 'British' on the medal entitlement indicates that the vic was her sole medal entitlement.

It should be also be considered that some nurses serving with the French Red Cross were also awarded the French War Ministry's 'Devouement Epidemies' Medal. It was awarded in either bronze, silver, vermeil (silver gilt or gilt bronze), or gold so some extra research may be in order here.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

Edited April 12, 2010 by RobW

[Noor]

Thank you Rob!

I kind a like weird texts and new abbreviations to pick up now - great way to learn as well.... I can plame SBL of course .

Thanks again,

Timo

[Thomas Symmonds]

Hello All -

Again, "it has been awhile" since my last post, but I had followed your thread on your Romanian group of 9, Rob. A very interesting discussion. I very much agree with your comment - "a bit of intrigue with a group is a good thing sometimes". I tend to learn more from the groups that have perhaps been fiddled with than the genuine straight forward ones ....

My addition to the Victory thread here is I need some help in clearing up the abreviations on this WWI pair I have just purchased. I bought them purely for the naming - I have not seen it before. It is a South African's duo - J W Harte

and the naming is as follows C.Q.M.S. J.W. HARTE. C.C.L.R.

Any help here would be very much appreciated.

regards

Thomas

[johnnymac]

Hello All -

Again, "it has been awhile" since my last post, but I had followed your thread on your Romanian group of 9, Rob. A very interesting discussion. I very much agree with your comment - "a bit of intrigue with a group is a good thing sometimes". I tend to learn more from the groups that have perhaps been fiddled with than the genuine straight forward ones ....

My addition to the Victory thread here is I need some help in clearing up the abreviations on this WWI pair I have just purchased. I bought them purely for the naming - I have not seen it before. It is a South African's duo - J W Harte

and the naming is as follows C.Q.M.S. J.W. HARTE. C.C.L.R.

Any help here would be very much appreciated.

regards

Thomas

CQMS - Company QuarterMaster Sergeant

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/CQMS

[RobW]

Hello All -

My addition to the Victory thread here is I need some help in clearing up the abreviations on this WWI pair I have just purchased. I bought them purely for the naming - I have not seen it before. It is a South African's duo - J W Harte

and the naming is as follows C.Q.M.S. J.W. HARTE. C.C.L.R.

Any help here would be very much appreciated.

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

Welcome back to the thread.

Johnnymac has already clarified the first abbreviation of C.Q.M.S.

While not having much specific knowledge on South African units the C.C.L.R stands for Cape Coloured Labour Corps. This corps served largely in France but also in German South West Africa and East Africa.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

Thank you both, gentlemen.

I had an idea that the QM was Quarter Master, and the CC to be Cape Coloured, but good to have the other letters cleared up.

The "R" still niggles in the CCLR though ...

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

A bit of a follow-up on the C.C.L.R medal pair you illustrated.

While the Corps as a whole was named so, there are also other references which indicate a Cape Coloured Labour Regiment so that would lock in your pair. It was recruited in July 1915, as the Cape Coloured Labour Regiment, for service in France.

Other information suggests that the CCLR was the only South African raised unit of the Great War to receive the standard British victory medal, not the bi-lingual South African victory medal which was normally the case. I have yet been able to determine if this was restricted to just the 'coloured' soldiers or also to those white South African officers who commanded this force.

Could you check the reverse of your medal to see if it is bi-lingual or not.

Regards,

Rob

Edited May 2, 2010 by RobW

[Thomas Symmonds]

Hello Rob -

Sorry I missed your question re the reverse of my CCLR Victory Medal - it has the bi-lingual reverse. Not that this is confirmed, but probably a white officer's medals?

regards
Thomas

Edited February 17, 2013 by IrishGunner

[RobW]

Hello Rob -

Sorry I missed your question re the reverse of my CCLR Victory Medal - it has the bi-lingual reverse. Not that this is confirmed, but probably a white officer's medals?

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

If you have the time I would drop over to 'Ancestry.co.uk' and attempt to find the person's MIC. That may be able to give you more information. Failing that there are a number of South African members on this forum as well.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

To all,

While this example has been posted previously in the Great Britain section, it is relevant given the context of this thread. Here is a bronze British war medal awarded to a member of the Chinese Labour Corps. Entitlement to the medal is confirmed.

As alluded to in the previous post it is the only 'official' recognition that the Chinese workers received. It is, to my mind, more indicative of the Chinese service in the Great War and certainly complements a vic collection.

Given its scarcity, collectors should be wary of the numerous copies and fakes that exist of this medal. There is a medal roll of recipients which makes checking the details on the rim of the medal all the more important.

Regards,

Rob

[Thomas Symmonds]

Hello All -



... and just before this thread explodes with new posts, a "simple" trio that I picked up to a father and two sons. All three were in the Royal Navy, and all three joining up as "boys" at age 12 years. Father, Archie Moore Parsons seems to have survived the war, while his one son, Albert Parsons, was invalided out (deafness) and the other son, William Archie Parsons was killed when the "H.M.S. Bulwark" was sunk 26th Nov 1914.



and the naming ...



Regards

Thomas

Edited February 23, 2013 by IrishGunner

[Tim B]

Hi Thomas,

Tragic story there and very nice to have all three medals with a specific history to them.

Tim

[RobW]

Hello All -

... and just before this thread explodes with new posts, a "simple" trio that I picked up to a father and two sons.

Regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

That is certainly a very nice trio of family vics and having them all named makes such research all the more enjoyable. It is the story behind the medals that is of such interest.

I really can't see this thread exploding with new posts given the abject lack of regular posts but the thought is a good one. There are, alas, only a few consistent posters. More fun for us though.

Regards,

Rob

Edited June 21, 2010 by RobW

[Thomas Symmonds]

Very nice Rob. I hope the others post their fringe Victory Medals too.

A quick question to the knowledgable - I have a Victory Medal that was, according to the recipient's MIC, only issued in 1948. It is at least 1mm thinner ... the naming only just fits ...

... so what version does Laslo label this one as?

[RobW]

Very nice Rob. I hope the others post their fringe Victory Medals too.

A quick question to the knowledgable - I have a Victory Medal that was, according to the recipient's MIC, only issued in 1948. It is at least 1mm thinner ... the naming only just fits ...

... so what version does Laslo label this one as?

Hello Thomas,

I am not sure what Mr Laslo would have classed this piece as, but I would still call it an official issue, depsite the late date on the MIC.

This does bring up the point of what label do we put on specific items. I think that the individual classification of any of the vics is in the eye of the collector.

By way of illustration; In the 1920s and 1930s a number of French medal manufacturers (M.Delande, Arthus Bertrand, Chobillon, and Janvier-Berchot among others...) produced copies of some of the Interallied vic series. Some collectors would call them copies as that is technically what they are. I would call them reproductions as they were sold as such and sometimes used to replace lost / misplaced official issues. To muddy those waters they were also purchased by recipients for wear so it is all a subjective point.

Mr Laslo did produce a number classifications which are listed in his book so again it is an exercise in definitions.

Regards,

Rob

Edited June 22, 2010 by RobW