Austria-Hungary Austrian medal bar from WW1

[Noor]

Hi guys,

I bought last week one nice Austrian portrait where is medal bar on wear.

Maybe someone can help me with the awards and rank of the soldier.

I must say that I don’t know much about the Austrian insignia but because lack of Orders on the medal bar for so old looking man, I guess he must be NCO or served during the WW1 as a NCO. Uniform looks a little pit tricky. Maybe he was Policemen or some another government official instead?

Now his medal bar:

1. Medal for Military Merit “Signum Laudis” on war ribbon with swords

2. Second “Signum Laudis” (????)

3. Karl Troop Cross (Karl-Truppen-Kreuz), 1916

4. Diamond Jubilee Cross for the Armed Forces, 1908

5. Medal for Loyal Service (????)

6. Tyrol Commemorative Medal (Tiroler Landesdenkmünze), 1914-1918

7. Imperial Germany Iron Cross 2nd Class

Maybe someone can confirm awards No. 2 and 5.

As much I can “read out” of his medal bar:

- He was in service before 1908 (Diamond Jubilee Cross were awarded to soldier’s in 1908 who had completed two years’ service)

- During the WW1 he served in the frontline (Karl Troop Cross was to be awarded to all military, who had been part of a front-line formation for three months)

- He served in Tyrol or was native Tyrolean (Tyrol Commemorative medal awarded to all Tyroleans who served with Austro-Hungarian forces during World War I and to those who fought for the Austrians on Tyrolean soil during that war)

Regarding this bar, my favourite is EK2 on it. It is just great example to have what shows how so famous award can be in the last place because he was member of the Austrian army! Any ideas how many EK2s Austrians got from imperial Germany during First World War?

Kind Regards,

Timo

[Noor]

Like Lukasz now advices, man on the picture is actually Oberstleutenant and he is wearing some kind a old-fashioned uniform what was in use only 1933-1938 period.

If he is senior officer, he must be promoted rapidly after the WW1.

There is a year behind the shot - 1937.

Regards,

Timo

[Tim B]

Hi Timo,

I pretty much agree with the medal identification and think number 2 is in fact another Signum Laudis. Probably a case where he was awarded the bronze and then silver medals. It appears both have the swords and if you look carefully you can see a partial of the swords on the second ribbon.

As far as number 5 goes, I cannot tell the ribbon for sure but, the bust reminds me of a wound medal.

Initially I thought the order was reversed as some of these Austrian bars had the senior ribbons on the right and were worn at an angle. However, if that were the case, I think the EK2 would have been sewn on top and the Signum Laudis on the bottom, so... I'm not sure here and will obviously be in the learning phase again.

Tim

[Dave Danner]

I agree with Tim. Two Signums (Signa?) Laudis, probably one silver and one bronze. And #5 is the Laeso Militi, or Wound Medal.

The photo studio imprint on the lower right indicates it was taken in Innsbruck. Innsbruck is the capitol of Tyrol.

[Noor]

Thanks Tim and Dave!

So, two Signum Lauvdis awards, wound medal and he is from Tyrol! Thanks for information!

Now, I don't have a time to check at the moment each of these awards information because work is waiting but some how I remember that some of the awards, what he is wearing post to be awarded only to NCOs or not? In this case is it possible to "guess" did he became an officer during the great war? I am still suprised that so senior officer, who saw some action, didn't received anything enameled.

Regards,

Timo

[Tim B]

Hi Timo,

Not to direct you away from here, but if you go to the "other" forum we frequent and search "Austro-Hungarian medals", I think you'll find some information I posted there and it should answer some of your questions.

Tim

[Kev in Deva]

In my opinion he sports a Wound medal with no stripes on the ribbon

indicating illness other than wounds caused by action.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[dond]

There is possibly one stripe on the wound medal ribbon. The EK2 is in last position as it is a foriegn award. Of course in another year or so he would have had to reorganize that bar once Austria was absorbed into the Reich.

[saschaw]

I don't see anything that points to a NCO. The Signum Laudis was awarded to officers only, as was the EK2 (regarding foreigners).

Seems to be an all-time officer!

[Noor]

I don't see anything that points to a NCO. The Signum Laudis was awarded to officers only, as was the EK2 (regarding foreigners).

Seems to be an all-time officer!

Thanks Sascha! Some how I remembered (and of course didn't check ) that the Signum Laudis was only NCOs award. Anyway, thank you for clarification!

All together: nice picture and I really like it! Now, when I know the details about his rank, uniform, etc what I have learned here, I like it even more!

Thank you all,

Timo

[Iver]

Timo: Awards of Prussian decorations to A-H soldiers:

EK1 - 341

EK2 - 7.478

KVM - 7.123

Of course EK2 could be awarded only to an officer of A-H army, for NCOs and men there was "Krieger-Verdienst Medaille"... :)

[Valter]

Signum laudis was only for officers, as Sascha said. He was probably on some rear duty, as he didn't get any bravery decoration, which was common for front-line officers. Karl Truppenkreuz could be awarded only for the presence in the theater of battle.

[hunyadi]

Signum laudis was only for officers, as Sascha said. He was probably on some rear duty, as he didn't get any bravery decoration, which was common for front-line officers. Karl Truppenkreuz could be awarded only for the presence in the theater of battle.

???????????????????????????????????

I think you need to look at the photo again...................

Signum Laudis with swords indicates a bravery award - in this case 2 X - then how do you get a wound medal sitting at a desk? The German EKII??? Look again please...

[Tim B]

In December 1916, the swords device was introduced for decorations awarded for frontline service.

Tim

[Valter]

???????????????????????????????????

I think you need to look at the photo again...................

Signum Laudis with swords indicates a bravery award - in this case 2 X - then how do you get a wound medal sitting at a desk? The German EKII??? Look again please...

Maybe I wasn't precise enough - I didn't mean rear duty in deep homeland, but some duty in near rear just behind the front, like supply, railroad, medic. It's strange why he doesn't have any bravery medal - at least small silver was more common than bravery signum laudis. If "wound" medal is without stripes, it is for ilness, not wound. And EK2 was common German decoration for foreign officers, not only front fighters. But most strange for me is absence of bravery medal.

[hunyadi]

Seriously Seriously

"Bravery" medals were ONLY for enlisted.... NOT for officers....

the general method of awarding offciers for bravery was the Signum Laudis with sword devices...

Its interesting that you have already stated that he is an offcier and that officers were only awarded the Signum Laudis - yet somehow is supposed to be awarded small silver bravery medals??? Do more research. - PLEASE

This offcier is a Lieutenant Colonel and as stated he more certainly would have been an officer his entire career. Lack of a long service award (1908 Jubilee Medal - so he was in uniform at that time!) can mean a couple of things - namely a break in service, or he rose in rank rather rapidly from a distinguished career...

Edited May 20, 2011 by hunyadi

[Iver]

He was surely an officer... He has the Military - Jubilee cross 1908, but no Jubilee medal 1898, so that means his military career could start after 1898. He has Silver, so as Bronze Military Merit Medal, but no MVK (Military Merit Cross) - maybe because of his injury he could not "go back" to front line. For an "Oberstleutnant" he has quite inconsiderable decorations. No MVK, no EKO, no FJO, nothing. I think he could "finish" the war with the rank of leutnant/oberleutnant and was promoted after the war...

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

Large gold and silver bravery medals could be conferred to an officer in WWI (they had a metal "K" on the ribbon), but they were sparingly awarded. Still, I agree that this gentleman is most likely to have been an officer all his military career. What regards his wound medal, there are probably no stripes on the ribbon, yet with a photo of the quality like this I would not venture to be hundred per cent sure. Do correct me if I am wrong, but could a no-stripe wound medal also be awarded for an entire or partial disability resulting from war operations?

[Tim B]

:lol: This poor guy probably never knew the headaches his portrait would cause almost 100 years later!

Tim

[Noor]

Oh, very well said Tim

Thank you very much to everyone who answered! Reading your posts I learned a lot!

Thanks,

Timo aka Noor

[Noor]

Now, here is my next photo what I picked up and I would like to find out again - what was this lad rank? Leutnant and late war uniform (1916-1918)???

Like I understand, two place ribbon bar consist only two "war ribbons" (Kriegsband) - so, few options.

Also maybe text on the back can help to find out something more. I can't figure out a word.

[Noor]

And here is next simple picture with tons of questions .

- what is his rank and from what period uniform he is wearing....I quess Oberstleatenant, is it the same 20s/earely 30s uniform as the guy on my first picture has?

now his awards:

- I think his first award is Imperial Order of Franz Joseph peactime ribbon (whats the criteria for that award - merit for state or more for a long service?)

- second award is mystery to me - ribbon has some kind a wide dark stripe, what I don't know. (Can it be "Landsturmmedaille" ribbon)?

- this one is easy - 1908 Diamond Jubilee Cross but why its on civilian ribbon??

[Iver]

the medal in the middle is jubilee medal 1898 for civil state employees...

[Noor]

Thanks Iver! So he is civilian clerk instead or some kind a reserve officer?:whistle: