JapanX Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 This order has very little information to be found. There doesn't appear to be any comprehensive books on the subject. Well, I think we should do something about it! Tomorrow I'll post a new thread, that I hope will help us with resolving military/foreigner ambiguity. Cheers, Nick P.S. And many thanks for new (and old ) beaties! Very interesting German and Austrian specimens! And your Lions are looking better than ever ;)
g1usxs Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 This is an order that was sold in one of the auctions few years ago:
drclaw Posted January 24, 2012 Author Posted January 24, 2012 Here is a link to the full online Encyclopaedia Iranica article on Persian decorations that the Qajar article draws from. It's about as comprehensive a study on any ODM as can be found. http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/decorations
Markus Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Thanks Gavin! I would tend to believe an Iranian site drawing on persia and Iranian documents for authenticity over other sites.
Markus Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) This is a photo I am posting for Babar of an incredible Lion and Sun medal that will be exhibited in the forthcoming Aga Khan Museum opening in Toronto in 2013. Looks like it was owned by the Aga Khan himself (I'm guessing here). WOW! Thanks Babar! "His Highness the Aga Khan has taken the initiative to create a museum of Muslim culture: the Aga Khan Museum, in Toronto, Canada. Due to open in 2013, the Museum will be established as a permanent institution with an international scope and mission. It is dedicated to the collection, research, preservation and display of works of art, objects and artefacts of artistic, cultural and historical significance from various periods and geographic areas of the Muslim world." http://www.akdn.org/publications/akm_project_brief.pdf Edited January 24, 2012 by Markus
Markus Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Here are two early Persian breast stars with beautiful enamel paintings. Photos courtesy of Babar.
g1usxs Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Markus -- Thank you so much for posting the photos.
Markus Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Close up of the medallions. Early Persian made breast stars.
JapanX Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Here is a link to the full online Encyclopaedia Iranica article on Persian decorations that the Qajar article draws from. It's about as comprehensive a study on any ODM as can be found. http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/decorations Hi Gavin, I believe Markus source heavily borrowed from this encyclopedia In some parts in the form of direct quotations... Cheers, Nick
James Hoard Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Here is one more: This is not actually the Order of the Lion and Sun but the Nishan-i-Moqaddas (Sacred), the third class of the Nishan-i-Agdas/the Imperial Order of the Agdas or the Most Sacred Order. This class went to those who had rendered exceptional service in functions junior to those of great minister of state, or to those of the rank of Minister Resident, Major General, or Governor of a province. Confusingly, the first class was also called Nishan-i-Agdas (Most Sacred) and came in two degrees. The first degree was worn by the Shah, and also conferred on fellow foreign sovereigns. The second degree went to senior Persian princes, foreign heirs apparent, those who had performed very distinguished service while holding high ministerial office or served as governors-general of major provinces. The second class was called Nishan-i-Qods (Very Sacred). Conferred on distinguished servants of the state, who had rendered exceptional service in functions equal to those of great minister of state, minister plenipotentiary, or great commander of the army. The insignia were originally almost entirely covered in diamonds, though at the end of the Qajar regime I suppose they were paste. Cheers James
heusy68 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Hello Gentlemen just to illustrate the post of James, here is a picture of Nishan I Moqaddas that I downloaded from a german auction house in september 2007. Sadly I'am not the owner of this beautifull set,because the bad guy from Vancouver (everybody will understand who I'am speaking about) left a very high end bid,and nobody compete because it was hopeless. A similar set had been auctioned in the 80ies by Hermann Historica (maybe same set). I have no idea if ribbon is correct colour.The manufacture looks french. Maybe someone here on this forum can tell us more. Emmanuel
heusy68 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Ounce I was offered that one too by a french dealer,but he said that because najaf was selling his set 75.000 US $, his price of 10.000 € for the sash badge (on a breast ribbon) seemed to him not too much overpriced. Pffff. I replied him that he could keeo it at that price. Just to set the information,the set with the blue sash,najaf bought it from Carsten Zeige for 4.000 € + 23 % on september 2007 End the story,is that this sash badge on a breast red ribbon was finally sold on a Rauch auction,but for much less than 10.000 € initially asked. Emmanuel
James Hoard Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Ounce I was offered that one too by a french dealer,but he said that because najaf was selling his set 75.000 US $, his price of 10.000 € for the sash badge (on a breast ribbon) seemed to him not too much overpriced. Pffff. I replied him that he could keeo it at that price. Just to set the information,the set with the blue sash,najaf bought it from Carsten Zeige for 4.000 € + 23 % on september 2007 End the story,is that this sash badge on a breast red ribbon was finally sold on a Rauch auction,but for much less than 10.000 € initially asked. Emmanuel Emmanuel, Thanks for posting these but these are latter day fakes, completely made up. These decorations never came in an enammelled version and there never was a sash badge, only a breast star for all four classes/grades. There was a sash but no sash badge. Apart from the size of the breast star and the value of the diamonds, the class/grade was indicated by the how elaborate the crown was and also the number of droplets emenating from the crown. Because of the valuable stones very few examples survive as they were usually broken-up and the stones used in jewellery or sold. Fortunately, some examples of the highest class, the Nishan-i-Aghdas, survive because they were conferred on rulers. The Topkapi Museum in Istanbul has two fine sets. The description and details of the order, and the descriptions of the various classes and grades as follows: Nishan-i-Agdas (the Imperial Order of the Aqdas, or the Most Sacred Order) The reasons for the foundation of this order are many and varied. Firstly, craving for jewelled insignia by senior officials could not be easily satiated by the Decoration of the Imperial Portrait, an award limited to small numbers and jealously conferred by the Shah. Secondly, the bestowal of the Order of the Lion and Sun had increased to such a degree that its reputation had diminished significantly. Thirdly, the Shah had long been planning to visit the great European courts where he was expecting to receive the highest orders available from his hosts, indeed he had already received several high orders of chivalry. However, it was quite evident that he had nothing of equal standing to bestow on his brother monarchs, in return. Consequently, Nasir ud-din Shah founded this new order in three classes in 1287 AH (1870 AD). From the outset, the Shah to limit awards of the order, to those who performed meritorious actions of the highest importance, or were deserving of the highest esteem of their sovereign. The order came in three classes, Nishan-i-Agdas (or Most Sacred), Nishan-i-Qods (or Very Sacred), and Nishan-i-Moqaddas (or Sacred). The first class subdivided into two degrees. Nishan-i-Agdas (Most Sacred), or first class. First degree: limited to the Shah and conferred only on important foreign sovereigns. The insignia consists of a large twelve-rayed star in silver with single straight rays, with small, plain rays in-between, surrounded by small five-pointed stars with a single diamond in the middle. In the centre, a round silver disk bearing lion rampant facing left, carrying an unsheathed sabre, and standing on a desert ground. The background illuminated by a sun in splendour rising above the horizon beyond, a small Qajar crown, above, all fully enamelled in natural colours. The round disk garlanded by three circlets of diamonds, each increasing in size outwards. The uppermost ray has an elaborate Qajar crown with five “battlements”, a large aigrette emanating from the middle with single diamonds drooping from each arm. The diameter between the furthest points of the star is 12.5 cm and the height, including crown and aigrette is 18.5 cm. The whole of the insignia fully encrusted with diamonds. The decoration worn pinned to the left breast, in preference to all other orders and decorations. The grand cordon is plain sky blue moiré. Second degree: limited to the senior princes of the Imperial family, great ministers of state of the highest rank and service, and Governors General of major provinces. Those functionaries who supervised Governors General of major provinces could also receive the decoration, provided they had enjoyed the office of great minister of state. Foreign Heirs Apparent and great ministers of state, who were especially deserving of recognition by the Shah, were also eligible for the decoration. The insignia of the second degree is almost identical to the insignia for the first degree, but encrusted with slightly less elaborate and smaller stones. The grand cordon is green moiré with narrow blue stripes along each border. Persian members of the order were styled Sardar-i-Aqdas. Nishan-i-Qods (Very Sacred), or second class. Conferred on distinguished servants of the state, who had rendered exceptional service in functions equal to those of great minister of state, minister plenipotentiary, or great commander of the army. The insignia is similar to the Agdas but smaller. The uppermost ray has a less elaborate Qajar crown atop, together with six small “battlements”, and a simple aigrette of three arms without drooping diamonds. The whole of the insignia encrusted with diamonds. The diameter between the furthest points of the star is 12.0 cm and the height, including crown and aigrette is 17.0 cm. The decoration was pinned to the left breast. The grand cordon is green moiré with narrow red stripes along each border. Persian members of the order were styled Sardar-i-Quds. Nishan-i-Moqaddas (Sacred), or third class: Conferred on distinguished servants of the state, who had rendered exceptional service in functions junior to those of great minister of state, or to those of the rank of minister resident, Major General, or Governor of a province. The insignia is similar to the Agdas but smaller. The uppermost ray has a simple Qajar crown atop together with six “battlements” only, without aigrette. The whole of the insignia encrusted with diamonds. The diameter between the furthest points of the star is 10.2 cm and the height, including crown is 13.3 cm. The decoration was pinned to the left breast. The grand cordon is red moiré with narrow green stripes along each border. Persian members of the order were styled Sardar-i-Moqaddas. Cheers, James
g1usxs Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 James -- Thank you for the wealth of information. Your background on this topic is very impressive and helpful. Is it possible to get the references for your information? I like to further understand the history beyond this order.
James Hoard Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 James -- Thank you for the wealth of information. Your background on this topic is very impressive and helpful. Is it possible to get the references for your information? I like to further understand the history beyond this order. I have a copies of the firmans or regulations for two of the reorganisations of the order. Apart from that, other more available references which you may like to try and find wherever you are located if you can. Alas, some of them may a little hard to access in the USA: L. Brasier and J.L. Brunet, Les Ordres Persans, Actualites Diplomatiques & Coloniales, Arthus Bertrand et Beranger, Paris, 1902. Persia: Military Attache’s Intelligence Summary No. 12, Period 24th – 30th March, 1947. E 3084/17/34. Iran Political Diaries, 1881-1965, Volume 13, p. 300. India Office Records, British Library, St Pancras, London. Piemontese, Angelo M., The Statutes of the Qajar Orders of Knighthood. East and West Quarterly, New Series, Volume 19, Nos 3-4, September – December 1969, Instituto Italiano per il Medio ed Estremo Oriente (IsMEO), Rome, 1969. Rosignoli, Guido, Ribbons of Orders, Decorations and Medals. Blandford Press Ltd., Poole, Dorset, 1976. Stiot, Commissaire General R.D. Les Ordres du Croissant Turc et du Soleil Levant en Perse ou deux influences rivales en Orient, Revue Belge d’Histoire Militaire, XVI-7/8, Bruxelles, 1966. Wright, Sir Denis, “Sir John Malcolm and the Order of the Lion and Sun”. Iran, Volume XVII, pp 135-141, The British Institute of Persian Studies, London, 1979. Wright, Denis, “The Order of the Lion and Sun”. Short Notices, Iran, Volume XIX, pp 179-180, The British Institute of Persian Studies, London, 1981. Cheers, James
drclaw Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 Thanks for this information James. Absolutely fascinating and the mind boggles at the thought of a $75,000 "collectors' copy". A salutary lesson about needing to know your subject area well.
James Hoard Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Thanks for this information James. Absolutely fascinating and the mind boggles at the thought of a $75,000 "collectors' copy". A salutary lesson about needing to know your subject area well. In my humble opinion nobody should be even thinking of spending that kind of money without demanding a provenance. One could perhaps imagine that sought of price for a piece studded with diamonds and precious stones, but even then a provenance would be essential. Since these decorations were rarely awarded, and then to men of high position, providing it should not prove difficult. If the dealer sounds as if it is proving difficult, head for the exit! Cheers, James
Markus Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Hi James, Wow it is great to have a scholar with so much depth on Persian order medals! I read the Persian medal Firman statues of 1834 and it states that gem laden Lion & Sun medals were replaced with silver work medals. Do you think the practice of adding jewels or paste stones to the Lion & Sun medal continued after 1834 to suit the taste of the owner or silver ones completely replaced that practice? The posts of #20,#36,#41,#43 & #76 in this thread illustrate the jeweled Lion & Suns. I was wondering if it was safe to date the jeweled medals pre-1834. The other question is on the stars between the rays on some of the 1st & 2nd class breast stars. Does this design incorporating stars between rays end at some point or does the practice continue throughout the history of the Lion & Sun order making. Thanks! Markus
Guest IMHF Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 This is a photo I am posting for Babar of an incredible Lion and Sun medal that will be exhibited in the forthcoming Aga Khan Museum opening in Toronto in 2013. Looks like it was owned by the Aga Khan himself (I'm guessing here). WOW! Thanks Babar! "His Highness the Aga Khan has taken the initiative to create a museum of Muslim culture: the Aga Khan Museum, in Toronto, Canada. Due to open in 2013, the Museum will be established as a permanent institution with an international scope and mission. It is dedicated to the collection, research, preservation and display of works of art, objects and artefacts of artistic, cultural and historical significance from various periods and geographic areas of the Muslim world." http://www.akdn.org/publications/akm_project_brief.pdf A very Beautiful and Priceless Piece!! :love:
g1usxs Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 I have a copies of the firmans or regulations for two of the reorganisations of the order. Apart from that, other more available references which you may like to try and find wherever you are located if you can. Alas, some of them may a little hard to access in the USA: L. Brasier and J.L. Brunet, Les Ordres Persans, Actualites Diplomatiques & Coloniales, Arthus Bertrand et Beranger, Paris, 1902. Persia: Military Attache’s Intelligence Summary No. 12, Period 24th – 30th March, 1947. E 3084/17/34. Iran Political Diaries, 1881-1965, Volume 13, p. 300. India Office Records, British Library, St Pancras, London. Piemontese, Angelo M., The Statutes of the Qajar Orders of Knighthood. East and West Quarterly, New Series, Volume 19, Nos 3-4, September – December 1969, Instituto Italiano per il Medio ed Estremo Oriente (IsMEO), Rome, 1969. Rosignoli, Guido, Ribbons of Orders, Decorations and Medals. Blandford Press Ltd., Poole, Dorset, 1976. Stiot, Commissaire General R.D. Les Ordres du Croissant Turc et du Soleil Levant en Perse ou deux influences rivales en Orient, Revue Belge d’Histoire Militaire, XVI-7/8, Bruxelles, 1966. Wright, Sir Denis, “Sir John Malcolm and the Order of the Lion and Sun”. Iran, Volume XVII, pp 135-141, The British Institute of Persian Studies, London, 1979. Wright, Denis, “The Order of the Lion and Sun”. Short Notices, Iran, Volume XIX, pp 179-180, The British Institute of Persian Studies, London, 1981. Cheers, James James -- thank you so much for this information.
James Hoard Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Hi James, Wow it is great to have a scholar with so much depth on Persian order medals! I read the Persian medal Firman statues of 1834 and it states that gem laden Lion & Sun medals were replaced with silver work medals. Do you think the practice of adding jewels or paste stones to the Lion & Sun medal continued after 1834 to suit the taste of the owner or silver ones completely replaced that practice? The posts of #20,#36,#41,#43 & #76 in this thread illustrate the jeweled Lion & Suns. I was wondering if it was safe to date the jeweled medals pre-1834. The other question is on the stars between the rays on some of the 1st & 2nd class breast stars. Does this design incorporating stars between rays end at some point or does the practice continue throughout the history of the Lion & Sun order making. Thanks! Markus The 1836 firman still describes the order in terms of jewelled insignia. For example, those awarded to diplomats were encrusted with a variety of precious stones. Those awarded to clerics, encrusted in emeralds. When conferred on those from other fields, in rubies and topazes.So I am not quite sure where you got the date 1834 from. The jewelled insignia were replaced by polished silver for all future awards in the 1856 firman. The reason given at the time was that these decorations were supposed to be emblems of honour and not meant to be a means of enriching the wealth of the recipients. Cheers, James
James Hoard Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Hi James, The other question is on the stars between the rays on some of the 1st & 2nd class breast stars. Does this design incorporating stars between rays end at some point or does the practice continue throughout the history of the Lion & Sun order making. Thanks! Markus Oops, sorry. I forgot to answer the question about the small stars. The small stars between the rays applied between 1856 and 1872. They were removed because of the confusion with the breast stars of Order of the Aghdas, which had been instituted in 1870. Thereafter the class was indicated by the number of rays, eight for the first class down to four for the fifth class. By the way, the Order of the Aghdas was partly instituted because of the continuing craving for jewelled insignia which could not be satisfied with the exclusive Order of the Portrait (Nishan-i-Tamtal-i-Humayun) which had been instituted in 1856. Cheers, James
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